Horizon.org

Fasting and praying for PB today. You are a lion – just be your passionate and sincere self.

In prayer today for protection, spiritual strength and knowledge. Also praying in love, for Jennifer and Larry may God remove the veils.

What a great opportunity to reveal truth in love. John MacArther faced the same challenge on Larry King, check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5lgT49M2oY. Hope all went well !

Been praying all day pb for you and your family.May Gods Love, Joy and Peace and Truth come through to those close today and the masses tomorrow.

Our Dear Brother,

Sending our love to you from Africa. We are praying the Holy Spirit will speak through you as He has always been faithful to do. The Lord has given you the gift of teaching, the word of wisdom…thank you for being faithful to use His gift for HIs glory. Go forth boldly with the Truth.

We are praying for you that our Lord will anoint your words and the redemptive power of God will sweep over all who are apart this interview.

I don’t think merely stating your convictions – in love or in rebuke – is going to build any bridges to the gay community. If you believe these people will go to hell then maybe you should pray God for a vision to reach them, then do something about it.

First, you need to be coherent in why you believe God forbids same-sex relationships. You can’t simply say: because that’s the way it is. There’s is a reason for every law, and you should know that reason. Please communicate and explain what you believe that is – that way we can get a dialogue going with the gay community.

Second, we need to understand gay people and dispel our own myths and prejudices about them. Tony Campolo (who holds a conservative view on gays) has written on the myths evangelicals have of the gay community. Educate yourself. If you make an effort to know who you want to minister to, then you’d probably be more effective.

PB,
Women up at Retreat just prayed for protection. We know your heart is full of love.

My husband and I were watching. Calm. Solid. Thank you, thank you for allowing yourself to be used!

Great job bob.

Pastor Bob,
I left the same message on cnn.com/larryking: THANK YOU for staying true to God’s Word. When people compromise, modify and pervert the Word of God just to fit their lifestyle – corruption occurs … and that is what is happening all across the world. We need more Christians to be strong just like you.

Kg from Kansas City

Hello,

First I want to say thank you for standing up to our biblical values. Although I disagree on biblical food laws, I agree with you completely on this- once you realize that you are sinning against the Lord, you need to repent and sin no more.

Thank you again for standing up for the truth.

God’s Word will not return to Him void!! Praise God for Pastor Bob being a willing vessel…although I don’t envy you being in the hot seat, may God be the glory & may something you said be used if not for Jennifer, for someone else listening. From Calvary Chapel Montebello w/prayers for you Pastor Bob

Thanks brother for taking a stand in love on the Jennifer Knapp controversy. Any pastor or Christ follower speaking truth on this issue will be misunderstood or ridiculed by a society that has slipped into moral relativism. In my opinion you represented Christ and the Christian community well. Blessings.

Pastor Bob, I am in Baton Rouge watching Larry King which I rarely do. You were AWESOME and I was compelled to search out your Church’s website to let you know this. You were in a very tough situation and handled it with total grace and truth. You represented God well. Unfortunately, Jennifer was angry and defiant most of the show which highlights her guilt. What if she was a Christian murderer and she continued to live in sin by killing more people because it was her “choice” but kept justifying it by saying that she was still loving the Lord? Doesn’t make sense, does it? You were bang on as is the Lord. Ted Haggard has some soul-searching to do. Jennifer Knapp has a lot of soul-searching to do. Stay richly blessed!

I happened to be changing the channel and saw you on Larry King. Eph. 6:11 says that we need to “put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.” Thank you for standing for Christ. Your point on mankind’s perversion of human sexuality was awesome and true. GREAT JOB!

Just saw Larry King – you did an amazing thing tonight…you walked in obedience to the Lord…expressed His grace, love, and wisdom to those whose eyes are not presently open to His truth. You represented Jesus and the rest of His disciples well – thank you! I pray that the Lord would continue to use you and your ministry to further His kingdom and His purposes. As you demonstrated tonight, not our will or glory, but His.

As I sit here watching Pastor Bob Botsford, I am once again reminded why I no longer belong to any church community. Does anyone notice how the pastor’s demeanor seems joyless? He says that he’s coming from a place of love for Jennifer, but that appears to be lip service. He comes across as judgemental and holier than thou.
I couldn’t figure out why so many of the comments state that people are ‘praying for protection’. After watching the interview, I now understand why, if this is his demeanor and approach to spreading the good news. Ted Haggert was a much more effective at explaining what Christ taught us. Love one another. Plain and simple.
One other note. Jennifer was absolutely right about translations from Greek. Furthermore, do any of you ‘righteous ones’ know how the books included in our bible were chosen to be there? We live in the age of the internet. Use Google. Go to the library and research it. Find out for yourselves how our modern bible came to be.
I am a follower of Christ and have been for many years and I support Jennifer in her faith and in her life. There are many Christians like me out here, too. I don’t listen to preachers or pastors any longer. I listen to my Lord.

Hello Pastor Bob. I was so nice to see letting the Grace of Jesus Christ be shown on Larry King. I was praying for you. You were speaking truth. I loved it! I will continue to pray for Jennifer, she needs Grace too.

Pastor Bob,

You did a great job – the Lord was with you!! I especially thought your last comment referencing Romans 2 with regard to natural tendencies to sin – was very effective and spoke quite well to the issue.

Thank you for doing what needed to be done for the sake of Christ and the purity of his Bride.

Amy
Converse, TX

Pastor Bob,
Thank you for being an ambassador to the nations, for representing Jesus, and defending the faith in HIM. I watched Larry King tonight and was pumped at how you defended our faith and the uncompromising stand we need to take on sin. Grace makes us take sin seriously, not lightly. Thank you.

Very good presentation. It seems that Jennifer is unrepentant. The point that Larry King was trying to make is whether Jennifer could help whether she has an attraction to the same sex But that isn’t the sin. The sin is that Jennifer wants to justify herself by saying she believes the word to have been somehow mistranslated. She found some others who enabled her so now she is comfortable in her sin. Jennifer said Pastor Bob was trying to guilt her into admitting homosexuality was wrong. The person guilting her has been the Holy Spirit not Pastor Bob. Pastor Bob is only doing what God has called him to do. Speak the word which is truth. I’m afraid some of the fastest growing church’s have found a way to appeal to more people by not telling them what the bible says about sin. Ted Haggard only made it worse as he has bought into the grace abounds Theology that says “so lets sin if it feels good as long as we love and God and each other.” What a joke. That guy actually read the bible? Scary.

I surely should have known that you wouldn’t post my comments. I went back and read the previous comments and predictably, they are all in support of the pastor and against Jennifer. The truth will set you free.

BOB, YOU ARE CORRECT, STAND FIRM ,YOU SAID IT IN LOVE. DON’T LET SATAN TELL YOU DIFFERENT. I AM SO PROUD TO HAVE YOU AS MY PASTOR FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS ! GOOOOOO GOD. GOOOOO BOB.

I am disappointed how poorly you came across on Larry King tonight. Surely, you must know that that kind of harsh, judgmental and outdated Christianity will only drive people away from Jesus. We live in a complex, postmodern world. People are looking for truth – not denial or fanaticism or false security or irrationality or a return to medieval thinking. I rejoice in Jennifer’s newfound honesty and authenticity. “The Glory of God is a man (or woman) fully alive.” – Irenaus

BOB YOU STOOD FOR TRUTH, THE ONLY TRUTH THAT MATTERS, GODS TRUTH.THANKS BOB, YOU DID IT IN LOVE AND WERE A WARRIOR !

God Bless you Pastor, keep up the good work.

Dr Bob,

I really appreciate how you presented your deeply rooted and Bibically entrenched beliefs and values. You repesented our Lord Jesus Christ well! Your words were compassionate, yet unswerving. As a counselor/ therapist i’ve too often seen therapist (and society) giving totally liberty to individuals and behavior. We’ll there are despirate consequenses to our actions and choices. Thank you for taking a stand for our congregation, community and the Church as a whole.

How sad this discussion even had to take place amongst professing “Christians.” It should be a given that homosexually is a sin based on God’s word. Obviously, “Christian” means many things to many people. Thank you for defending the faith. Shame on Ted Haggard, a former pastor, for not defending God’s word on the issue. Homosexuality perverts the character of God. I wish she could have been asked if she was engaged in a sexual relationship with her girlfriend. Isn’t that how you really know you’re a homosexual? I wonder how she’d respond to being questioned on whether she believes in sex outside of marriage.

Thank you for your defense of the gospel tonight on Larry King! My wife and I were amazed by your calm spirit as you stood on the truth of God’s Word. You were attacked by all sides, and you responded humbly and with grace, but never compromised the Word. Sadly, many in the church today sacrifice truth for “futile speculations”, and that was evident with Jennifer. We will be praying for your ministry.

I am amazed at all the positive feedback on this forum.
Bob, you CLEARLY stated “I don’t think we should make decisions based on feelings, that we should base them on fact.”
Ummm
You have based your entire life and business on the FEELING of faith…
Cause, last time I checked, there still isn’t a whole lot of fact that points to the existence of an omnipresent god…
What a wanker

Pastor Bob,

I’ve never heard of you before but simply wanted to say you did the right thing in every way possible. Thank you so much for having the courage to be on LKL. Church, we need to continue to pray for Pastor Bob, his family, Horizon, Jennifer, Ted and Larry. God Bless you.

no words i thank God about u ,you are not only tried to save jenffer but ur messege was a wake up call for the country the country itself is lossing the strong back bone of christianty.God bless u keep doing the great work of our lord we are with u i will pray for u on my bible study group,God is happy to night more than anybody.love u paster.ROMANS 1:16.

If you put the sin of homosexuality aside, you still have the sin of fornication to consider. Jennifer can’t dispute every single scripture that was translated from Greek to English as her excuse! Humans are always trying to justify their sins! The beautiful thing is this: Conviction then Acknowledgment then Confession then Forgiveness then REPENTANCE.

What is the occasion for self-congratulation? This isn’t a poker game. No one has outplayed the other, and there is no winner. I guarantee that there are closeted gay people in your congregations, in your families, who love the Lord and who want to live for Him. Please don’t create an environment where they feel unsafe to be truthful about what they’re going through.

Just watched the great debate on LKL. Just stoped what I was doing and prayed for you. Man! God is awesome, that He has captured the heart of a sinner to proclaim His word. Stay faithful, and continue to abide in Him. The Holy Spirit spoke right through you, Awesome on how you humbled yourself to the Lord.
GLORY TO GOD, HIS WORD WAS PROCLAIMED.

Dear Pastor Bob,
Thank you for standing up for the Truth, in a world where most
people are ashamed to stand up for Jesus and His ways, you did it with such clarity and wisdom. I bless your life and your family, and I ask that the Holy Spirit continue to guide you in your ministry. You are an example to us all.

-Much love,
Casa Del Padre Portland, Oregon

God Bless you Bob What I saw of it you did a great Job. Our ministry as well has been having some of these same discussions. What I think most people are having such a hard time understanding is that, it is the parading of the sin that’s at issue here. If a child molester was to go on Larry king live and say how they feel free to share that they lived a lie and how happy they are to share this. This country would go ballistic! The act of homosexuality is sin, But what I feel is at issue is the parading of that sin. However when we share with others about the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ “the demons shout his name” As long as we Agape in Jesus name then we are doing the work He has called us to do . God Bless you Brother

Pastor Bob, I prayed while watching you on LKL. I could see God holding you up, and the Holy Spirit bringing to remembrance the God’s Word that you had hid in your heart. The key there was to not remain in sin, as you told the story of the woman caught in adultry. We are called to come out of the world and die to sin. To go back into sin and say “well, I’m working on it” is like the Israelites going back to Egypt. It’s always easier to justify the sin and say “God still loves me”. It’s much harder to die to the flesh and walk in the spirit, doing God’s will, not your own. Jennifer clearly wants her own will, and hiding behind the grace and love of God to accomplish her will. I will certainly be praying for her, but I wanted to tell you how uplifted I was to see you defend the Word of God. Sadly, there are so many pastors who would’ve caved.

Bob,
Michele and our family have been blessed by your faith and your heart to share the gospel without compromise. We share prayers with others here in N.C. and praise your commitment to the truth. We will continue to pray you forward and ask for Gods love and protection for you and your family.

Pastor Bob,
I thank God for the strenght you’ve shown tonight. It is amazing to me that so many “so called christians” are actually hurt about the way you represent Christ. We are seing developing the new “Sodom and Gomora”. God is giving humanity signs after signs to repent, earth quakes after earthquakes, economic crisis, sicknesses, hunger…..people wake up, or you will be too late. Homosexuality is a sin. Sin can be pleasurable for a season but IT LEADS TO DEATH. Those of you who argue against it, you are not against Pastor Bob, you are against Christ. Pastor Bob was very obedient to the word of God in the entire interview. Praise The Lord!

WOW,PASTOR BOB,THAT WAS DEFINATELY LIGHT AND DARK RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES. GOD GRANTED YOU AMAZING, CALMING, AND TRUTHFUL WORDS TONIGHT. JENNIFER’S WORDS TO DESCRIBE HERSELF”A PERSON OF FAITH” IS CORRECT. HER FAITH IS WITHIN HERSELF, NOT AS A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST. NOT ONCE DID SHE CALL HERSELF A CHRISTIAN. HER HEART WAS VERY HARD AND SELF-RIGHTOUS ,THEREFORE SHE COULDN’T SEE HOW SHE WAS JUSTIFYING HER HOMOSEXUALALITY. MAY GOD’S GRACE CONTINUE TO BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY ALONG WITH OUR CHURCH

Thanks Pastor Bob for being strong to the Word and not allowing humanistic thinking or emotions or justification for our sinful actions override what God wants us to be. Christians are so influenced by the world that we don’t want to call anything sin. Where is the mentality to give God our Best and being controlled by His Spirit. I do believe we can be so indwelt and so in union with the Spirit that we don’t sin even though we do fall back at times (and moments) of being led by the flesh. Paul tells us to crucify the flesh and its evil desires. We are all born into a sinful nature and we all have propensities to sin (and some are sexual) but as you said on Larry King we are to cast aside those sins and walk in newness of life.

I noticed that Jennifer and Ted referred to a need to love each other in the church and not to judge but the scripture is very clear concerning casting off sin especially sexual sins. It’s like people don’t want to address sin and instead everything is covered in love. It’s interesting that in 1st John love is one of if not the major theme but intertwined is an underlying theme of obedience to God and part of that obedience is not continuing in sin. The son of God came to destroy the devil’s work and what is that work? – sin and unrighteosuness. It’s again the “love” without the “obey” We want the good feeling part of the word without the obedience part (a holy people). North America and unfortunately much of the N.A. church have been sucked into this lie of Satan. No wonder our society is going to hell, we have a church that isn’t holy and many non-believers don’t want any part of the church because it isn’t any different than them. I personally have heard that time and again. It’s ministers like Ted Haggard that have made the church a laughing stock. Not that people are to look at people but to Christ but when the totally lost look and hear what goes on with Pastors and Priests and people in the church call themselves Christians but act as unholy as the world why would the world want what we have? We certainly need a cleansing and sooner or later it will happen. The people you stood with today are unfortunately a disgrace to God and for what Christ did on the cross. Sad.

Thanks for standing tall in front of the nation and for your congregation in praying for you.

Randall Quick, Belle River
Ontario

P.S. No wonder Ted Haggard was on the wrong road, he has wrong thinking. When asked by Larry King he didn’t even want to admit that homosexuality is a sin . To me he was partially condoning his actions and hopefully he isn’t ministering anytime soon.

Pastor Bob, we are totally inspired by your courage and as usual, your steadfastness. It is a sad day when one has to defend the Word of God to fellow Christians.

My understanding of the interview is that the truth you spoke is not only relevant to “your community” as Jennifer (and Ted!) insisted, yet applies to the whole body of Christ. The issue was not how our Christian lives develop individualy, as they do, but that Jennifer denies homosexuality as sin and professes this in a Christian forum – therein lies the conflict. Confusion has to be averted, and God bless you for setting the record straight.

Compromised Christianity left me weary after 20 years as a preacher’s “kid”. I was utterly confused about TRUTH. The subsequent year I spent at Horizon redefined my faith! Five years later, God’s work through you and Horizon continues to change my life for His glory, daily.

Pastor Bob, it was a blessing to see you stand firm on the Word of God tonight on Larry King Live. Keep up the good work and stay strong in the Lord. I will continue to pray for you. May God bless you and your family.

bob ,
you did a great job tonight on larry . thank you for speaking the truth . and never folding . i remember when i tried to justify my sin . never worked God always was convicting me no matter what was my excuse. after the way you presented yourself tonight it makes me proud to say im a christian.
God bless

Pastor Bob, thank you for lovingly standing up for the Truth in God’s word tonight on Larry King. I appreciate you and your calling to be a light in a dark place. The bible is black and white no gray areas, and it was refreshing for that view to be heard on national television.

Watched you on Larry King tonight–then came to the website to read your full blog. Thank you SO much for rightly dividing and presenting the Word in its fulness without watering it down to tickle the ears of all who were watching! There was nothing condemning in your words toward her and the compassion of Christ was so very evident in your words and demeanor. May God’s richest blessings be upon you!

Pastor Bob,

I am proud to be in your church for 15+ years with a Pastor that loves the LORD and understands His word.
You showed so much compassion for Jennifer as she continued to interupt you everytime you spoke. You demonstrated Phil. 1:6 That the Lord who has begun a good work in you will complete it.

The LORD is the Convictor, the Convertor and the Completor for the un-saved, I pray that Jennifer understands that and she rededicates her life to the Lord free of the sin she is living in.

God Be With You

Hey PB:
I have been at Horizon for 8 years and in church Wednesday evening when we all prayed for protection over you and to speak truth according to God’s Word. We live in dark times and Satan is all around. Thank you for standing firm. Being from Horizon, I know how you love all of us sinners but the driving point is that Jesus died for our sins and we need to lay them at HIS feet. Once convicted of that sin, we are to die to it. Your twitter last week said it perfectly -” flee temptation and do not leave a forwarding address”.
May God continue to give our church boldness to live for Jesus, proclaim the Gospel message and love with unconditional love. Praise God for your boldness.

YOU DID AWESOME TONIGHT!!! You told the truth, Pastor and that’s all that matters. It’s obvious they were all against you, but don’t worry about that, because its sin and thats all there is to it…It’s the Word and God is not a man who should lie! So, I’m praying with you as well and…just glad to have someone Preach the truth out there!!!
BE BLESSED!!!

My husband and I are watching and praying for you as we watch. We are followers of Jesus (living through his death, burrial and ressurection) and thank you for not tap dancing around TRUTH! May God put the words in your mouth at the right moments from today forward.

bob , you have done a good job but you need to stop condeming other people when you sin also.

Wow, you did a great job on CNN tonight. Although hard pressed on every side, you never waivered. The ignorance regarding the truth of God’s Word blows me away. Thank you so much for holding fast to the Word. It absolutely amazes me that when we call sin “sin”, it is always called being judgmental.

Way to go, Pastor Bob! You are making Jennifer Knapp looking like the stupid, deceived cow that she is while you’re standing for God’s word. You’re doing us all proud who believe in Christ and trust in His Word. God bless you!

I’m so angry with you, Bob. How dare you condemn someone on public television? Shall I scrutinize you, too? Your trendy clothes and your orange tan. You clearly care very much about your appearance. Your wealthy church in one of the wealthiest counties in San Diego? Good choice ministering to the rich, Bob. Your website with your photo plastered all over it? We applaud you, Bob. Light and salt.

I support Jennifer in both her love for Christ and her love for a woman. Christ spoke of love. Pastor Bob needs to wake up to the Holy Spirit moving in “places too deep for words”. Go Jennifer!!!!

We never watch Larry but happen to be turning through…thank you for standing for the Word of God. The love of Christ was truly evident as you spoke. Praying for you and your family as you walk throug this.

Jana,
What is the source of authority and truth in your life?

Jesus loves you.

I was only able to watch a youtube blip of your LKL interview. Believe it or not but I used to be as dogged as you and as many christians are about the topic of homosexuality- until I realized that we are still making it the worse sin than others. Being a conservative christian same sex struggler myself who is celibate I can no longer overlook the incredible hypocrisy that exists when it comes to this topic versus divorce or any other sin for that matter within the church. I’m sorry Bob but I really do not believe you are showing ‘love’ to Jennifer Knapp as your professed to be doing on the show. I was actually embarrassed for you and for the way so many christians handle this topic. It’s no wonder so many christians end up going to the other side because of this so called ‘love’ that Christians have for homosexuals. To be honest I’m close to going to that side myself because quite frankly I’m fed up with these same old arguments and tactics people like you and others do thinking they are helping gay people. Honestly, do you really believe that is how Jesus would handle this issue if He were walking on this earth again. One only has to read the gospels to find that answer and what you are doing is not the model He used. I beg of you to change your approach as I can guarantee you it’s not effective. I think you could learn alot from Andrew Marin.

I am so glad I was born gay.
It is so much easier for me to blow off ignorant men like Pastor Bob.
My advice to the closet cases in his church is pray for the willingness to except what you are and go out and finally enjoy your life.
God will be with you when you do.
Flip Pastor Bob off on your way out though.
Amen.

As a pastor of an evangelical church, my heart sank as I watched our engagement with the issue of homosexuality take a few steps back tonight. Speaking the truth is not enough. Speaking the truth in love is not enough either. We need to have an actual conversation where each party seeks to hear and understand one another. God help us to be generous listeners, to attempt to answer one another’s questions directly, and to nuance the complexities of such an important and volatile issue.

My wife and I share the same wish for our young daughter: that she grows up to be happy, secure and fulfilled as an adult. Bob, you don’t seem to have any of these three characteristics. Not sure why you’re compelled to make value judgements on Jennifer’s life or anyone else’s. She seems like a great lady, and I’d be proud if my daughter grew into someone so beautiful and talented.

Jana – it was a response to statements made just as YOU are doing here.

Sara – but the difference is Bob is using his authority in a congregation full of people to target a young woman.

Aloha Bob– Great job in a tough environment-you spoke the truth in love. A lot of us will be praying with you for Jen. Danny Lehmann YWAM Hawaii

Dear Pastor Bob,
Thank You for allowing the Lord to use you in a powerful way tonight.
I hope what you said helps someone who is struggling in that area of sin.
Our word tells us that even the elect will be deceived, I believe that poor Jennifer has been deceived and will keep her my prayers for God to reveal the truth to her and bring back home….

Bob:
I just finished watching your interview on CNN with Jennifer Knapp and Larry King. Honestly, i was extremely disappointed with your responses and the huge missed opportunity to minister to hundreds of thousands of people watching the show. You are required as an under-shepherd of God’s people to be able to teach and rightly divide the Word of God – you did neither. Not once did you answer, specifically – what the Bible says, specifically about homosexuality – (Romans 1 and Galatians 5 for starters) – When asked about the Greek translations, you had no response – you were confused and puzzled. Im sure it was nice to be in the spotlight – but next time – please have God’s
Word hidden in your heart so that it will accomplish the purpose for which it was sent, to draw us to Jesus and set us free! Im sorry but you did a very poor job of reasoning from the Scriptures.

Just finished watching Larry King and want to say you did a fantastic job and spoke what needed to be said and backed it with scripture even tho Haggard and Jennifer andLlarry tried to turn it around you stayed true to the word. Thank you and God bless you and your work.

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:10

Thank you Bro Paul for standing up for Truth!

Servant of Christ, Maumelle, AR

Jana-
Pastor Bob cares for and is concerned about Jennifer, just as he is about anyone living in willful and habitual sin, as you and I should be. It is the Word of God that must be the source of authority and truth in our lives. We need to both read and apply God’s Word in our lives. If we are not applying it we are deceiving ourselves about our true spiritual condition. If we are living in willful and habitual sin, and not only willful and habitual sexual integrity sin, we are living in rebellion to God. Our calling is to please God, glorify Him, and magnify Him in our hearts and lives. Our witness is then our speech, conduct and character. All need to point to Jesus. Pastor Bob loves Jennifer Knapp. He is concerned about her in a loving way, and has addressed her choice to knowingly and willingly live in habitual sin. He is equally concerned about anyone making the same or similar choices. Isaiah 5:20 sums it up pretty well.

God bless you.

Roger,

Simply and repeatedly stating that Bob loves Jennifer does not make it true. It was obvious to everyone watching his intent was to publicly persecute and ridicule her for her sexuality because she identifies herself as a Christian. Please Roger, my friend, read the entire bible and choose those texts that are relevant to the discussion if you’re trying to prove Homosexuality a sin. Homosexuality is NEVER mentioned in the bible. The only homosexual acts mentioned are those of prostitutes in the temple. Even then it is only relative to male prostitutes serving women. HOWEVER, it is very clearly and accurately translated that women who are found to not be virgins on their wedding day should be stoned at their door step. If Bob feels the need to clean his congregation of sin maybe he should start with those women. Anyone in Bobs congregation want to come clean about that one?

Jennifer replied that her spiritual advisers don’t believe homosexuality is a sin, nor does it disqualify her from eternal life. God is very clear that it is a sin AND if a homosexual doesn’t turn from this sin and repent, and turn to HIM they will go to hell. Throughout the entire Bible, God’s message on homosexuality doesn’t waiver and is very clear.Leviticus 18:22,29,30 ; 20:13,: Do not lie with the same sex. Genesis 19: 4,5,13,: Sodom destroyed because inhabitants practiced homosexuality. Romans 1:26: Lesbian acts a sin. Other good verses: Jude 1: 7,8, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 2 Peter 2:4-9, 2 Timothy 2:19, and Ezekiel 18:4 The point is that one should live their life according to His plan instead of one’s own sinful desires and that is what Jennifer has decided to do. She has turned away from God, and I will pray for her.
I was hoping Bob would have high lighted that Jennifer (mankind) condemns herself by willingly doing what God has forbidden. It is God’s wishes that none will perish (go to hell), but that all would have eternal life. It is up to the individual to accept or reject God. By rejecting his word, by knowingly disobeying Him, by building one’s whole identity around homosexuality, Jennifer is bringing God’s condemnation upon herself, just as the inhabitants of Sodom did. I will pray that Jennifer turns from homosexuality and turns to God and His truth.

Dear Bob,

I would be mindful of the young people in the pews that feel they have no room for self reflection and expression.

Believe me, there are young people who are gay in your church who are wounded by the message of intolerance.

I prefer to be labeled a Red Letter Christian. Jesus himself never spoke about homosexuality. The Pauline doctrine of Christianity is toxic and does not respect individual who lives in peace and moves in Christ’s love.

Each of us will be accountable to God, I would rather be accused of being loving and accepting in Christ. To condemn a person, in the name of Christ, by using scripture written by fallible men that has been dumbed down in translation is ludicrous.

Paul Hill, who killed an abortion doctor, was a modern day Apostle Paul. He murdered a man based on his view of holy scripture. Condemnation in the name of Christ based on human understanding of scripture is wrong. Plain and simple.

Again, I challenge you to be mindful of the youth, they are who suffer by the message of intolerance. Be careful what you propagate, whatever one sows, that will he also reap.

I pray that intolerance, shame, guilt, judgement, and human interpretation of scripture to condemn, never, ever, be heaped on your shoulders.

These types of emotional abuses wound young people and turn them away from Christ.

Thankfully a few return with a new understanding of Christ’s mercy and unconditional love. The journey is a long and hard, often without the support of their families.

We go to church because we are human and in need of encouragement. God gave us our mind to be used and not to be controlled by people behind podiums.

The gospel is good news. Peace should be the message of all religions. Can you imagine the wars that would never be fought if peace were at the core of all religions?

Here are a few statistics that were never discussed on Larry King.

Via: Ben Teague

• Gay and lesbian people are 3 to 7 times more likely to attempt suicide.

• Every 5 hours, a gay teenager takes his/her life, it is estimated that for every teen that takes their life, there are 20 more that attempt to take their life. The top reason for gay teenagers to call for help to a crisis hotline is for religious reasons.

• The church is teaching that homosexuality is wrong; this is why God did not intend for the bible to be read literally, say… by capitalist preachers (which is a sin in itself).

• It is the church’s stance on homosexuality that has caused gay teens to be rejected by society and their parents. James Dobson teaches that God did not intend for homosexuals to live and he has no religious education.

• There is nothing wrong with a 5th grade understanding of the Bible, as long as you are in the 5th grade.

• We have been conditioned to hold these beliefs (that homosexuality is wrong) by the church, where the prejudices were born and continues to be promoted.

• The bible has been used to promote and denigrate: apatite, segregation, slavery, women. And now misused to condemn homosexuality.

• Fundamentalist Christians have used the Bible to denigrate throughout the ages, now they are doing it again to condemn gays.

• There are six or seven verses in the Bible that remotely speaks about this (what we now know as) homosexuality. And, so, the bible says: if a man lays with another man, they should be put to death. If you read the bible on a face value level, then you disregard several important things: just before that passage, it says, it is an abomination to eat shrimp, and a few verses below, it says, it’s an abomination if you plant two different seeds in the same hole, it is an abomination to eat a rabbit, you shouldn’t wear linen and wool together. The bible is the word of God, through human beings interpretation. This is called SELECTIVE READING. Abomination = ritual wrong, and was not used as immoral.

• Biblical literalists know the truth, but they are not able to engage in a PRONOUNCEMENT. They, the Bible literalists, say this is what the Bible says – Answer: NO – that is what the Bible reads… it’s the struggle to understand the context, language, culture and custom of when the bible was written.

• This use of the Bible literalism is a very new and a modern invention in the early 20th century. We had almost 2000 years of Christian history, without literalism. Almost all of the literalist are Capitalist; they are making lots of money: Jerry Falwell- $9mil; James Dobson-$138mil; Pat Robertson- $459mil.

• Others (religious preachers and proclaimed religious teachers) preach/teach to their parishioners what they should believe/understand what the Bible says.

• There were no Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek word for human sexuality, especially homosexuality. The words lifted out of these original texts are really inappropriate.

• The sin which we should be concerned about is not the homosexuality, but is Homophobia which is the more egregious sin because it is offered in the name of the scripture by some religious people. The Bible is an incredible weapon, people use it as a weapon to define violence and justifying death, even the Pope had sanctioned murder centuries ago.

• All loving relationships are honored by God, the Bible does not speak against loving relations or gay relationships. God’s world is inclusive.

• We don’t judge who is a sinner, we should leave that up to God. I can’t for the life of me think that God would say, I will punish you because you are black, I will punish you because you are a woman, I will punish you because you are a homosexual.

STOP Religious Violence.

Thank you for the time that was spent reading my e-mail. May you take it to heart and mind.

You did an incredible job on Larry King Pastor Bob! You held your composure very well and you spoke the truth in love. May God bless you.

You made excellent points with your limited time to speak such as when Jesus didn’t condemn the adulteress woman but also told her to go and sin no more, and how Jesus came to die for our sins not so we would remain in a sinful lifestyle but so that we would be born again and allow Jesus Christ to rule our life.

May God’s love lift the veil from Ted, Jennifer and Larry’s eyes.

Pastor Bob,
I watched the interview and I wanted to thank you for speaking out in the name of the Lord. Christians have been losing their spines for quite sometime….trying to conform to an evil world. That is not what God has called us to do. We are to preach out against sin. Yes, we all sin and fall short of the glory of God, but this woman has falsely represented Christianity. She has been gone from the Christian music scene for quite sometime, but I’m sure this isn’t the last time she will be interviewed or heard on the radio. Perhaps she can move to another more accepting genre of music. But as far as I’m concerned, she has no place in Christian music. This is not saying that I’m casting judgement on her. God calls for us to be inspectors of fruit. Let’s call sin what it is…a sin! Thank you Bob!

Well Pastor Bob, I would like to say that much was accomplished here, but it was not. This is a controversial issue that will continue divide the body of Christ until Jesus returns. Now what I would first like to address is the issue of Hermeneutics that she brought up. Let the record show that the word (homosexual) was not around when the behavior was around, in a sense I am not sure what they would have called it, but anyway what she was talking about is that from the Hebrew to the greek and now to english there is some discrepancy surrounding the actual word homosexual and what the actual text is talking about. It is thought to be talking about rape more than homosexuality, but again what would they have called it back in the ancient world. I believe you did a good job Pastor Bob, although I would have liked it if you asked her what she thought Romans 1:26 was talking about. I have heard of no confusion on the translation there. I also would have liked it if you pointed out that nowhere does Paul refer to a homosexual relationship in his writings other than there, which was practiced in Rome at the time. Also why there is an overwhelmingly amount of Bible verses that encourage heterosexual relationships and sex within marriage. The bible clearly states that a man would leave his parents and cleave unto his WIFE (Gen. 2:24) and not his “sexual partner”. Again I have heard of nothing be noted wrong with that translation either. I would also have liked it if you would’ve said something about how God views sex and the becoming of one flesh through sex. Clearly the scriptures do NOT support her lifestyle the same it doesn’t support the drunkards, etc. That also would’ve been good to bring up. It also would’ve been nice to note that God didn’t exactly change his mind but rather has extended Grace under the covering of the Blood of Jesus, thus sort of solving the Leviticus rules problem, without getting to Theologically deep.

Now I don’t think you have to worry about people feeling though as you judged her. Anyone feeling judged should examine their own heart, you weren’t judging self righteously, you were DISCERNING as the bible says you should. Of course no one outside the church would and very few in it understand that. To her it sounded as though you condemned her to the bowels of hell (Larry wasn’t helping dispel that) but you were merely stating what the as she called “Sacred texts” said. (haven’t heard sacred in a while) Again what version of Romans is she reading if she is reading at all. This also calls into question how much of her life does she actually center around Jesus and his commands, (“Repent or Perish) sounds to me like she may love that woman more than Jesus but who knows. Now why this had to be done on Larry King I don’t know, as dysfunctional as the Body is now this only separated us further. Clearly there are many who don’t believe in the Inerrancy of the bible and may even believe it isn’t as “God breathed” as Paul said it is. So of course it is matter of Doctrine and Theology and she has stated she can’t argue well from either spectrum. Yes we are all sinners and yes Jesus died for everyone but still Repent or Perish makes it pretty plain. Now that DOES go for everybody, so the next time you tell a lie, etc. you should remember your words and I’m sure the Holy Spirit will convict you. Unrepentant sin is the problem, homosexual sex isn’t okay but homosexual attraction is another story. So would she be willing to live a celibate lifestyle? Most likely not considering her somewhat Humanistic view of things. She also seemed to be a seeker friendly church shopper, she is not concerned with denominations that speak truth but rather denominations more willing to appease her and her partner, something plaguing the Church in America more and more each day. Never mind Christ crucified, what church lets me live how I want to live. It also appeared to me that she was confusing Love with acceptance of sin, love isn’t telling her “yes, go have sex with your girlfriend”. And the justifying sin thing she didn’t get simply because in her eyes her lifestyle isn’t sinful thus removing any guilt or CONVICTION she had. All in all Bob you did alright but again why did a Family matter (us being family in Christ) have to go to National Secular television I just don’t know. Trust me Bob I’m on your “side” if you will on this matter but there are a couple of points you could’ve brought up I think that would hopefully have gotten her to actually think about her own theology instead of letting her emotions speak. That love and compassion we all talk about I did not see in her, I saw it in you, all the “fake judgmental love” comments are either coming from past hurt or a hole of cynicism that permeated or culture. You’re in a small minority Bob but it’s a minority that speaks truth and doesn’t back down. Keep up the good work and may God bless you and your church.

God bless Jennifer Knapp. I will Pastor Bob the best w/ his judgmental and hypocritical ways. Not only do you judge and condem Ms. Knapp but her spiritual counselors? I thought only God could judge.

just saw re-play of larry king live; thank you pastor bob for your firm stance and boldness in representing the Truth of the Word of the Most High Yah; Since Jennifer Knapp and Ted obviously did not indicate they REPENT for their sin, their place eternal life is highly questionable; the difference is REPENTANCE.

Hey Pastor Bob, I can only imagine the oppression that you must have felt in that studio. You walked into the lions den and put yourself out there to be attacked. You stood for truth in love and did a great job! And you were rudely interrupted many times.

We are seeing the evidence of the apostate church, a falling away . Prov 14:12 “There is path before each person that seems right, but it ends in death.” Deception and delusion are rampant. If homosexuality was normal to begin with, there would never be a debate period and there wouldn’t have been a need to be on Larrys show. We don’t debate heterosexuality because it is normal/natural…

And for Jennnifer to get defensive as to why you were calling out her sin, my question to her is then why did you “come out”? Did you truly think this wouldn’t cause controversy? Where does society draw the line with the term “sexual orientation”? That opens the door for anything and everything!!

And to Ted Haggard, what an ear tickler if i ever heard one. That was weak and pathetic! How about if I go thru my process of adultery , after all its all about love and we shouldn’t judge! What a mess!

NARTH is a great website to learn facts regarding this lie.

(What was up with the 4 finger diatribe? )
As Christians we don’t judge souls, but if you claim the name of Christ, we do judge your fruit . There is a difference if you habitually, willfully live in sin without conviction as opposed to falling and getting back up and repenting.

You stood for truth and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts!

Hey Jana – it’s cool that you are interested in the Bible’s teachings.

I love to use the John Macarthur Study Bible.

Regarding working on the Sabbath and the food question:
Paul warns the Colossians against trading their freedom in Christ for a set of useless, MAN-MADE legalistic rules.
Colossians 2:15 – So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Woman were not respected, nor taught in those days. Those passages encourage the women to be quiet and learn. Yes, fundamentalist Christians believe that men should be the spiritual leaders.

Leviticus 21:18-20 In OT times the sacrifice had to be without blemish, as did the one offering the sacrifice. This was to be a picture of Jesus Christ, the perfect high priest to come.

Regarding honoring one’s parents, Jesus quotes the OT verses and indicates how seriously God regards this obligation.

Yes, the Bible does condone corporal punishment, but do not exclude the very important verses of how the discipline is to be given in love. Eph. 6:4 – And you fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.

And I suppose you believe the worlds only 6000 years old too. So gods against homosexuality but incest is okay. If Adam and Eve were the first 2 people on Earth there kids had kids with each other. Same with Noahs kids after the flood that never happened .Ever hear of Science anyone??

Ohh and a man lived in a whale for 3 days stop basing your lives on made up fairy tales americans

Pastor Bob,
Just meet you for the first time here tonight in Hawaii via Larry King. Our hearts go out to you to thank you for speaking God’s truth in love. Larry King should be ashamed of himself for cornering three against one…but then again “greater is He that is in us than he that is in this world”. We applaud your composure and being the bearer of Truth and Light in this ever darkening world we live in.
You are loved in Hawaii. Blessings to you and your family.
aloha.

Jana, it is clearly stated in the NT that homosexuality is a sin. I think (with help – thanks JM!) I did a pretty good job of addressing some of the issues you are struggling with. It is my experience that the more I study and the deeper I dig the better I understand the scriptures.

I’ll always have questions, but they become less and not more.

Why is the church not murdering people you ask?

Perhaps because Jesus taught us to love one another.

Jana,
Enough already…go to bed!
There are enough ear tickling apostate churches out there to coddle every lifestyle. Pastor Bob is not one of those weak pastors.
1 man plus 1 woman, in a married monogomous relationship.
Outside of that, its not of God. Period.
Goodnight! google NARTH

Here ya go Jana –

In 1 Corinthians chapter 6, go down to verse 9, the Apostle Paul writes these words, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers shall inherit the Kingdom of God. And such were some of you, but you were washed, but you were sanctified but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”

Jana,

I am dismissing no sin and making no judgments. Homosexuality just happens to be the topic of discussion. I am not judging homosexuality or any other sin, God does the judging. I have family members and friends who practice homosexuality…I love them, not their sin. I have family members and friends who have committed adultery and other sins…I love them, not their sins…and they know this. I pray for them…that is all that I can do. We will all stand before God and account for our sins…He will be the judge.

I am not perfect and I don’t profess to be so. The Old Testament is under the “law”. The New Testament is under “grace”…given to us through the blood of Christ. If we repent and confess of our sins, Jesus is faithful and just and forgives us our sins. Romans 3:28 reads, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law”.

You mentioned Abraham. Romans 4:3 reads, “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness”. I believe, through my faith, that the Bible was written by those who were inspired by God to speak and write His Word. The Bible is a “living” document…the same yesterday, today and forever…as is our living Jesus and living God. It is all just as relevant and pertinent today as it was thousands of years ago.

Through the grace, mercy and love of Christ, I do as well as I can as a human being in this sinful world. Do I sin? Sure I do. I don’t get up in the morning thinking, “Well, I think I will go out and sin today”. Many days, I sin. I confess my sin and Jesus forgives me my sin. 1 John 1:9 reads, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”.

If God reveals to me through his Word that something is a sin
and I go out and willfully commit that sin over and over…I am either not of God or I am sinning against him. I will be judged by him.

Peace to you. Jesus loves you.

Anyone having premarital sex IS just as unrighteous and of course you know the church teaches to avoid that too. That just wasn’t the topic of the night. We should remember that God judges all sin the same.

Jenn INVITED this discussion – I wonder why you are so upset by it?

My scripture is NOT a mistranslation although I understand that you may have been told to claim that from people who do not want to believe homosexuality is a sin. A more accurate word would be “sodomites” . Have you read Romans 1?

OK – Evelyn sets a nice example. I’ll close with peace and love. This discussion has been good.

Pastor Bob,

You were “preaching to the choir”, which is why “the choir” will be happy with what you said on Larry King Live. But there’s a world out there that needs to know what the Bible says on homosexuality, in a language devoid of regular church jargon and yet, backed by relevant scriptures. But you were lost in your own world and missed your opportunity. I was disappointed to see your pathetic response when Jennifer played you like a fiddle with her argument on interpreting Greek.

I never watch “Larry” normally but I sat glued to the set.
Too much to type with one finger but had to say, “great job”
and ask, “was anyone else offended by Larry claiming that when Christians speak, we inspire murders with our hate speak! And his stupid comment about 4 fingered children going to hell, ludicrous! Never heard of you before Bob you did well despite the odds against you. God bless you.

Pastor Bob, I would first like to thank you for your courage ! Not all men of GOD are willing to stand and take their rightful place in delivering the word of GOD truthfully no matter whom it offends. I was so pleased with the stand you took in JESUS’s name and I know JESUS was too !! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you . Pastor Bob I have a son who thinks he’s gay, and I love him with all my heart. But I know he must change to fit GOD’s word and not GOD’s word to fit him. And I will continue to show GOD’s LOVE to him until he does.

Hello Bob. I just wanna say I respect your beleifs. And as a borna again christian I undersand what your tryng to say. But I’m gay. And I love Jesus Christ so much. I speak of his word whenever I get the chance to. What really ticks me off is that it’s easy to point fingers at someone. But unless you have gone through it yourself you will never understand? I’m aware of the text in the bible where God says it’s an abomination. But what if I was born this way? As a young inoccent child how am I suppost to understand? I feel convicted all the time when I sin. Just not about this. I can’t help what I feel. I like guys, thats what I’m attracted to. I don’t like girls at all. They disgust me. In the bible it does says its wrong to lay with a male. What if that meant sexually? It says sin leads to death, and with homosexuality comes disease. Ok bu what if I’m not living a promiscuous lifestyle, and commited to one person than how can that be said? Till this day I’m still confused about the whole issue. I believe a person can change through God’s help. God can break any bondage. But if I allow God to change me from being gay than I’m not being true to myself. Than I won’t be happy. All I want from life is for me to make my Lord Jesus Christ happy, but also me as well. There’s been so many times when I wanted to commit suicide because I did’nt wanna hurt God by being gay. Or my family. And I still feel that way. I’m only 17. and I’m praying that God shows me the desires of my heart. And whatever his will is for me I will agree with it. I’m single. But i want to meet a male whos is on fire for God, and agree’s God is the only way. How am I sining if I’m doing what God ask’s of me? I knew I was different since I was in first grade. All I’m saying is maybe we mis-understood homosexuality. There’s a difference from ppl who choose it, and ppl like me who remain close to God, but just love differently. What in the bible God meant peopl who are promiscuous. When he said a man shall not lie with a male. that’s pretty much meaning sex. And there’s alot of guys who have only sexual relations. And I think that is VERY WRONG. But it does’nt say anything about a romantice loving relationship between the same sex. I’m not trying to change any word in the bible. I would never do that. And I’m not trying to create my own rules. My I’m a bit confused on the whole subject only becasue I feel the bible is talkin about “homosexuality sexually”. And if I’m not living an only lustful life, but rather a Godly Christian Life just loving differently, than how am I sinning? What if the texts we read about in the bible on homosexuality we are misunderstanding? I just dont know. I mean what would you do if you were in my shoes, or Jennifers, or any other gay persons? You must see it fro our point of view. I’m not here to disrespect you, or say your wrong. Just want you to understand me? I’m also here for advice. Please don’t say I’m lost, or Confused. Ppl tend to tell me that. But I’m quite aware of the position I am in. God lives in me, he works in me. I am filled with the holy spirit. I want to live eternally with Jesus Christ more than anything. But after all this discussion and talk about homosexuality it than again makes me question. Can I be the Christian boy that I am, and live a Godly life…but also be in a commited loving relationship with a nother male? And still make it to heaven? Thats all I want. And now your pretty much saying no! So therefore that hurts me now cause I know for one I might never be fully happy. I don’t wanna be salibate forever. But I would never ever reject God. I just wanna live a life pleasing to God. And your saying I can’t if I’m gay. Well than what am I suppost to do? Why would God allow me, or Jennifer, or any other Born again christian whos is gay and I don’t even like to use labels as gay or lesbian, but any of us to go to hell? I believe God looks at the heart! I’m clear that God knows me and my heart to very devoted to him. Bu I DON’T LIKE WOMAN, and I don’t wanna be with one I can’t help my attractions. I’m just like you, but the only difference is i like males instead. Is that really a big deal? People turn i into a big deal. I respect Jennifer so much for having the courage to confess her own personel sin on national television. And I feel the holy spirit through her music. She would have never done that music if she were’nt filled with the holy spirit. So that means God was in her heart workin through her while she was writing her music, and a the same time gay, and in a same sex relationship. And your saying that a true christian would turn away from sin completely. Well ppl say your not truly saved until you fully turn away. Well she was gay and filled with the holy spirit meaning she was saved this whole time even though she was gay. So maybe there are just different out looks on the whole thing. I;m just giving my own opinion. Cause it hurts me when people continue to make me feel so bad about feeling a certain way that I was born with, wihoug understandinghow we feel. Just try to understand what we go through. I pray everyday that this wickid world turns to God before it too late. And I pray he continues to work in me, and live in me forever. and give me th courage to see things clearer. Please see eye to eye with me Pastor.

I respect you, and love you as a brother in Christ. And I will pray for your ministry. But please fully investigate what I have told you about. So I can see a brighter picture. I guess you can say I’m a bit confused about the whole thing. But I just wanna be happy, and I wanna make God happy.

Sincerely -Matt

I left a message in support of Pastor Bob last night…I dared to mention that homosexuality is demonically inspired, and someone appearantly determined that this TRUTH was not palpible for this forum, since my message was not posted.
In any event, thank you Pastor Bob, you did an excellent job.

Dear Pastor Bob,
We came across your interview with Larry King last night. We found the dialogue to be very one sided. We appreciate your stand for the truth. We would also like to share what the Lord showed us.

According to I Jn. 3:7-9. We like the Message Bible version:
“So, my dear children don’t let anyone divert you from the truth. It’s the person who acts right who is right, just as we see it lived out in our righteous Messiah. Those who make a practice of sin are from the devil, the piorneer in the practice of sin. The Son of God entered the scene to abolish the devil’s ways. People conceived and brought into life by God. Don’t make a practice of sin. How could they? God’s seed is deep within them, making them who they are. It’s not in the nature of the God-begotten to practice and parade sin. Here’s how you tell the differnece between God’s chilren and devil’s children. The one who won’t practice righteous ways isn’t from God, nor is the one who won’t love brother or sister. A simple test.

Continue to stand for truth and righteousness and the deception will soon be exposed. Blessings!

Pastor Bob, I just saw you on Larry King Live and once again I am left disappointed by yet another Christan pastor. I pray that I can articulate my point in way that makes you understand why.

I’m 35 years old and left homosexuality at the age of 21, got married at 23 and have been happily married for 12 years.

What irritates me is that there are so many Christian pastors who speak on subjects they know absolutely NOTHING about. Homosexuality is not something that you just wake up one day and choose. My homosexual feelings began during adolescence. When most of the other boys began noticing girls I began noticing boys. For most it of us it FEELS natural. I even, at the age of 13, had a crush on my gym teacher. You, like so many others, cannot possibly understand this because you grew up with a natural bent towards heterosexuality.

Now let me explain to you why I left homosexuality:

I believe God has clearly laid out two choices: to either walk in spirit or the flesh. Even though I still have homosexual desires, I choose to every day walk in the spirit. My spirit tells me that God has a PERFECT plan for my life. The unfortunate thing is, most people don’t understand this relationship between spirit and flesh. My flesh is constantly wanting me to turn away from God…My spirit beacons me to seek HIM at all cost. The same with the former alcoholic, drug addict, gambler, or prostitute.

I want you to know that it has taken me years to understand this difference and most don’t get it. Most don’t understand that there is a constant tug of war between spirit and flesh. I believe God brought my wife into my life to be a walking testament of what it mean to walk in spirit and in truth. Because of this I have been tremendously blessed.

I have great compassion on the homosexual community and having a Christian pastor rattle off bible versus for an hour is counterproductive. WHY? Because you haven’t been there! You don’t get it! That’s all they see. Even though you have great intentions and your heart is in the right place I’m sure you angered most of the homosexual community. Wouldn’t have been better to bring someone on with you who has actually walked through the fire and is actually living the will of God?

P.S. Would love to continue this conversation with you.

Great job Pastor Bob! I thought you were very loving and genuine in your responses. Thanks for standing up for truth!

I think Pastor Bob did a wonderful job on Larry King. There were a lot of agendas on that show, and I felt that Jennifer and Larry King were a bit attacking to Pastor Bob. I thought the other pastor had an “angle” to be on, but Pastor Bob told the truth in a calm, soothing way spoke in love and not accusing. He was stating the Word. God Bless you Pastor Bob for being our pastor.

I think Pastor Bob did a gracious, love-filled and amazing job last night. i couldn’t have been more encouraged at how he stuck to the Truth and did so in a quiet and steadfast way. i have friends that attend this church and have attended myself a couple times when i have been out visiting…the Lord is in that place. He is using that team to preach truth and it’s so refreshing. prayers surrounded last night and I am praising God for the unrelenting adherence to the truth. To God Be the Glory!

Pastor Bob, Thank you for standing for the truth on Larry King. The Bible is our authority for all of life. God bless you!!

I am so disgusted at your interview with LKL and your over-all stance on the issue. No wonder why I, and so many others, are turned-off by Christianity. Good for Jennifer and for her being so strong. Shame on you.

Pastor Bob,

In Prayer you went in prayer you left! Humbly and selflessly, for those who think no congratulations is in order, I will prayer for their peace. It is not easy to stand for your beliefs, but it is what you were called to do. Kudos for bringing light. Hold your head up high, because He knows your heart.

Pastor Bob,
Thanks for being on Larry King last night, fighting the good fight of faith. God Bless you brother, we are praying for you. My husband too is a pastor preaching against the strong tide of compromise and apostasy! God is awesome and worthy to be praised and His word is true and will stand forever.
Just know you are not alone there are 7000 who have not bowed the knee. Lord helps us to stay faithful in this wicked and preverse generation.
My husband Bill is an awesome preacher and writer sounding the trumpet of warning. He has written several books and also articles ; also concerning Twilight. The deception is full and cup of trembling is being poured out. What will these poor souls do on Judgement Day. The likes of Ted Haggard and Jennifer Knapp truly breaks our heart, as they laugh, mock and sneer at God’s Holy word.
In Jesus Shaloam,
Kristin Randles
Believers in Grace Ministries

Pastor Bob, Thank you so much for speaking the truth in love in your interview. I get very frustrated at people who try to candycoat the gospel but I think that you presented it very well. Thanks for standing up for God and the Bible. I looked up to JK as a teenager and am very dissappointed in her I would not want our youth group to follow after her and think what she is doing is right. You did an awesome job on the interview!!!

Pastor Bob, I was so proud to watch you defend God’s word last night on Larry King. I’m praying for you, your family and our church, from a small town in West Texas. Wish I still lived in San Diego, if only to listen to you speak the Word of God! You did an amazing job last night speaking the Truth. I pray for Jennifer and Larry so that they can someday see the Truth also! Thank you for your wonderful work in the Christian community!

Pastor Bob, I am so proud of how you stood up for the Word of God last night on Larry King. You are such a wonderful example for me as to how to be brave and stand up for the Truth. You spoke with such Grace and Love for the Lord and our Savior. I pray for anyone who does not see the Truth so that they too can be saved by Grace someday! I used to live in RSF and now am in a tiny West Texas town, missing Horizon Fellowship even more after last night!

Wow! So many comments, opinions and feelings. But you are right: it’s about going back to what the Word of God says. Although you were hardly given a chance to finish any of your sentences and the stage was already set in opposition, you did stand firm and represent the truth, and for that, I thank you. People like to have Jesus on their own terms; they focus on the loving Savior, but they avoid the Jesus in Revelation with eyes of fire who judges in righteousness. He is truly both, and you can’t have one without the other. What I saw was Jennifer questioning the validity of God’s Word–whether or not the Greek translation means what we think it to mean, and this reminds me of Satan in the garden asking Eve, “Did God really say…?” How clever he is, and how foolish we are when we start to allow our faulty logic to supercede the fundamental truth of God’s infinite wisdom. How desperately wicked we are, and how we need the fire of the Holy Spirit to lead us and the Word of God to guide us. I will be praying for a protection for you and your family. May God bless you for honoring Him and His Word. “The LORD honors His Word above His Name.” The others may have spoken His Name, but if they are not holding to His Word, they miss the point…As Jesus said, “Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do the things I say”?

Pastor Bob, thanks for spreading the Word truthfully and graciously. The other three individuals were definitely distorting the truth of the Word. My wife and I were praying for you and the audience that they were hear the truth. If God is for us, who can be against us?

Pastor Bob, you handled yourself with class even though you were talked over. Jennifer is wrong – homosexuality is a sin! You can’t just take the parts of the Bible that you like and take everything else out of context! God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. From what I read, Jennifer is not promoting herself as a Christian singer anymore, nor is she with a Christian label. I also do not believe that Ted Haggard was an appropriate panel guest to handle this topic. Larry King needs to retire or learn in his late age to become an unbiased interviewer, which he hasn’t done since his show started.

To Matt Roybal,
I felt your sincere words and you speak from your heart and we are all here for you to pray for you my friend. We all have a struggle in the area of sexuality. It is rare to find a straight man who has never struggled with thoughts of other women and same with women with thoughts of men. Heck look at all the cougars! So we understand temptation , all of us.

But my thoughts are this, if homosexuality was completely normal and natural, there would be no discussion about it at all.
We are in some serious times and we need to lift each other up before the Lord with all our burdens and keep each other accountable for these very reasons…You are not alone. We are all here for you! We love you and Jesus loves you!!

Pastor Bob, I’d never heard of you until last night. You were a shining light, speaking His Word with boldness and genuine love! Telling someone to repent is loving, merciful and kind; it’s not judging. And we must judge those within, 1st Corinthians 5.

“Purge the evil person from among you” (1st Cor. 5:13, ESV).

Since when has the message of repentance, holiness and obedience become condemnation? The very fact that we hear the full gospel preached is God’s grace.

The American church has become dull of hearing, lukewarm and backslidden. Like Ravenhill said, Sodom had no Bible. May God bring revival before He brings judgment.

Pastor Bob, it was very special watching you on Larry King. It was as if I could hear and feel the Holy Spirit of God speaking through you. The prayers of many were answered.

Larry King is a master at controlling the venue. He listened long and hard to Haggard but he gave you little time to reply. He allowed you to be interupted. Knapp played the “love and acceptance” card. It kind of went like this. Knapp was saying that she had love and acceptance for you but that you were the bigot by not returning in kind.

Larry King and the homosexual media eat this nonsense up. Larry King’s personal life is a mess. He’s been married 8 times and is now getting divorced again. We will probably be hearing news soon enough in regards to an engagement between King and some 30 year old beauty queen. As for Haggard, I don’t think that he has really come to grips with his sin. Healing is a process. Repentance takes place at a point in time. We need to continually repent. Repentance of course means that we first acknowledge that we have sinned, that we have moved outside of God’s stated will for our lives. When we repent, we are saying that God is right and that we are wrong. I didn’t hear that from Haggard.

As for Knapp, I did not hear it from her either. All I heard from here was a continual blaming of yourself for guilting her and a refusal on her part to acknowledge that she was practicing sin. She continued to justify herself.
Knapp of course is Biblically illiterate. Haggard knows better. We do know from Scripture, and I like the way that you continually brought the table back to the Bible, that God is love and that he has expressed His love for all humanity in Christ. Acceptance by God is a much different condition. Without confession and repentance on God’s terms, there is no forgiveness or acceptance. We are only accepted in the Beloved. God loves everyone, but will everyone be saved? No. The only one at the table who was really concerned for anyone but themselves was you. Your heart was breaking for that young woman. Haggard and King were just rolling around in their own junk. You expressed Christian love enought to warn that young woman. Haggard was so fixated on his own “process” that he was in no position to help her.

Pastor Bob, your love for everyone at the table was moving. Your steadfast unwillingness to depart from God’s word was inspiring.
Your humility in regards to your own failings, and we all have them, clearly revealed you to be the honest one at that table. Lying to others is a sin that we are all guilty of. Lying to ourselves is like committing suicide. You were the truth teller at that table.

The Catholic church is in a sea of trouble today. Their practice of celibate priests is unbiblical. Even Peter, had a wife. Interesting it is that the problem that keeps repeating itself is not of the priests going after the young girls or the nuns going after the young boys, but of the priests going after the boys. The teaching of the Catholic church has engendered an environment which the homopedes are drawn to. Their next problem is that they have continually sought to cover up their abominations. These abominations are cropping up in other denominations. For the Christian church at large to give Knapp a pass on this would only speed up the moral deline in this world.
My point on the problems of the Catholic church should not be taken as a wholesale condemnation. I know some very fine Catholics and they are deeply troubled and saddened by the situation. Pope John Paul was a man that I have a lot of respect for. The point is that Knapp should be repenting and not justifing herself. Only then will she receive the forgiveness and healing that she needs.

You continued to reach out to Knapp, inspite of the junk that she was peddling, I think that you might have reached her.
I also think that you might have reached many in the viewing audience, or to put it another way, I think that the Holy Spirit of God was reaching many through you.

The power of the cross was manifested in that meeting. My take is that more people took note of that power than you will ever know about this side of heaven.

Just wanted to say that I admire your stance on this issue and your willingness to go on national tv and face what you faced last night on Larry King Live. This situation is only going to get tougher as time draws near. You handled it well. Prayers for Jennifer are needed. Thanks for standing strong while showing a spirit of love.

Dear Pastor,

I caught you on Larry King Live and was so glad you were there to speak truth to Jennifer and all who listened. Thank you for letting the Lord speak through you to such a confused world.

David? you commented on April 24th, 2010 at 7:12 am, I read your response and would like to talk to you further my younger brother is battle-ling homosexuality and I would like to hear from you the counterproductive things I can refrain from doing.

parker.yj@gmail.com

Thank you,

Yendi

Yikes Tiffany!
Bob is now perverted? You are deceived with the apostate deceptive teachings of the emergent church ..words like “formation” and all love and relationship with out repentance is a LIE!
Go to lighthousetrails.com…they leave no stone unturned when it comes to all this spiritual formation jive talk and unfortunately so called christian colleges like PLNU and Westmont are allowing “speakers” to come into chapels and slowly brainwash our students….read Castles in the Sand.
I find the posters that don’t agree woth Bob to be filled with hate!

Well I am glad to say I am not in Paul V or Rev Joe church and am very glad to be under the teaching of Pastor Bob!

If you knew me or off me what would you do if;

1. If you found me in the gutter dirty and drunk, Would you ask me to give up drinking and turn to Christ? (take me home and clean me up)

2. If you saw that I was killing myself with speed and cocaine would you say, hey you need to give up the drugs man and turn your life back to Jesus? (and take me to a rehab center)

3. If I pulled a gun out in a store and you were there, would you ask me to reconsider and ask to put the gun down, and try to share the Lord with me? (then call the police)

4. If I were trying to steal from you and you caught me, would you want me to repent and ask you and the Lord for forgiveness? (return what was stolen)

5. If you saw me with another woman alone out to dinner and dancing, would you confront me and ask me to return home to my wife, children and to the Lord? (call my wife and let her know)

6. If I were to proclaim that I am now a homosexual and engaged in a sexually active relationship. Would you confront me and let me know you how much you loved me cared for me and ask me to return to the life of a Christian and former beliefs?

7. If I were now a person well known around the world and especially in The Christian World, and now proclaimed a life of homosexuality as my choice, how much more would you ask me to return to my beliefs as a Christian not only for my sake but now for the sake of all the young people that look up to and admire me.

The more our world accepts alternative lifestyles that do not align with the Word of God, so our children will be confused and being confused with what is right and wrong, they will follow their own emotions and passions, instead of seeking Gods direction for their life. Is that what you want for your Children? God does not want that for his children either.

Lord; May everyone see today that you have mapped out a direction for our lives that is wholesome and good, the Bible is your letter, a love note for us to follow. Thank you Jesus for dying on the Cross for our sins and giving us your Holy Spirit to dwell in us to keep us from the desire of sin. Amen

Thank you, Pastor Botsford for beautifully articulating and representing God’s absolute standard in the face of relativism. You demonstated true love: you spoke the truth, kindly and clearly, to three people (and many viewers) who have allowed themselves to be deceived. May the Lord’s grace continue to abound to you and your family.
“How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news, who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation, who say to Zion, ‘Your God reigns!’” Is. 52:7
In His grace,
Rachelle Crawford

Bob, Thanks for standing up for the truth. We love you,
Staci and Jeff

Bob,

Thank you for presenting the truth in love, and I encourage you as an ambassador for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

It’s all about HIM, HIS truth and love. Man can distort and pervert the truth to justify anything, but that doesn’t make it right. Truth is not relative, it comes from the Lord, and is universal for all. It’s not your message you deliver, it’s the Lord’s message. He is the judge, not we as believer’s, it’s simply our job to present the truth in love (as you have done). Just because one does not believe or understand truth doesn’t make it any less truth.

The crux of the issue is the difference between, recognizing the truth as a believer and confessing your sin, or not recognizing sin, and seeing no reason to confess and repent. As a believer the Holy Spirit is at work in our lives and conflicts us of sin. As believers we sin, and the difference is we confess the sin and repent.

As a babe in Christ one may not recognize the need to confess yet, but as they mature they will understand they sinned by the guilt that accompanies sin in a believers life.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

In His Service…

Matt Roybal,
I can’t tell you how much your comments moved me. Please know that it is not for the people of this blog, your church, or this country to judge you. Your faith is something that is between you and your God. It is clear that you have felt the presence of God in your heart and in your life – listen to those feelings, not the assertions of flawed humans who filter their beliefs through their own conceptions and prejudices. Stating emphatically that they or pastor Bob speak the truth does not make it so – it is THEIR interpretation of the truth. There are many, many interpretations of the truth, and it is arrogant beyond belief for the people who judge you to assume that they have discovered the one truth, or that their interpretation of a work as metaphorical, ancient and complex as the bible is, is the only correct one.
Read the words of the minister that posted after you did – the Rev. Joe. His beliefs and opinions are at least as valid as anyone else’s on this board, and he expresses a view that understands the questions you ask in your post. Again, however, ultimately it is between you and God, and I pray that you find your peace with your faith while living the life God gave you from birth.

your the man

I got a chance to watch the last 15 minutes of the LK/JK/PB/TH interview. Here’s my take:

1. Larry King clearly doesn’t like interviews where he isn’t the center of attention, but it’s HIS show-so it doesn’t really matter.
2. Jennifer clearly believes it HER choice to be a Homosexual/Lesbian. She would rather choose her sexuality over faith. She referred to that in the interview.
3. Pastor Bob clearly mentioned that it is GOD’s job to judge.
4. Pastor Ted didn’t stand up on any level on either side of the issue. He was more preoccupied with being neutral and appeasing the host and Jennifer. (At least that is MY opinion/observation.)

My point is this: You either believe the Bible is the word of GOD or not. If you do, you take the entire Bible and apply it in context to your life. If you don’t, what’s the point in continuing that part of the conversation?

Jennifer feels (as Pastor Ted Haggard does) that all that matters is that Jesus commanded us to love others as yourself. What kind of love does it refer to? He didn’t clarify that. Is the love referring to a sexual relationship? I would think not. He stayed as neutral as possible to avoid “offending” either Larry or Jennifer.

I love my brothers and sister, but it is VERY different from the love I have for my children and wife. There must be some kind of difference there I’m sure.

The Bible clearly states that homosexuality and laying down with another person of the same sex is an abomination to God. Whether you like it or not. End of story. GOD is the judge of that.

We, as the body of Christ, don’t hate homosexuals/lesbians. If you do hate anyone for any reason, you are NOT part of the body of Christ. What GOD hates is the sin, not the sinner. He wants us ALL to repent, regardless of what that sin is.

The scripture regarding,”He who is without sin cast the first stone.” directly refers to judging and condemning others, while you yourself continue to partake of sinful pleasures.

GOD wants Christians (the church that follows Christ) to reach out to all communities regardless of your race, culture, background, etc.. Our responsibility is limited to praying for you and allowing you to allow GOD to change your life. I can’t change you. I don’t expect to change you. It’s not my job to change you. It is up to each individual to make a personal decision. If you need a support group, we as the church, can and will provide that for you. Whether you’re involved with Sex, Alcohol, Drugs, etc., as a Christian-I will love you, hug you, and help restore you to the extent I can through GOD’s help. But I can’t force you into a program you don’t want to be a part of.

It is NOT my desire to offend anyone, but I will defend the word of GOD…yes, I call that the BIBLE.

If people expect political correctness because of the postmodern world we live in today, then perhaps we should include the following statement into our U.S. Constitution: Political Correctness must be included in all manners of discussion since we’ve outgrown our willingness (or the ability) to distinguish between lawful or legal, moral or immoral, appropriate or inappropriate. Everything we say must be acceptable to all men even if it infringes upon your (religious) beliefs or freedoms.

America Bless GOD!

Bless You Pastor Bob.I’m just so shocked and sorry that so many people are falling away from the Lords teachings but we know that this is a sign of the Last Days and we must staystrong. I’m so proud of you for taking this stand and showing Christian Love to Jennifer..I was with you all the way. I thought Ted was very wishy washy and We should all pray for him and Jennifer and Larry King..How sad for them:(..Thank You for being Faithful to for Our Lord:)..Much Love In Jesus Name..Becky:)

Pastor Bob,
We watched the show up here in British Columbia. Thank you for standing up for the truth and authority of God’s Word in what was not only a very hostile environment, but a tricky one with quick sound bites and rapid back and forths. You did a really good job. I thank the Lord for your faithfulness.

I watched the interview last night and I and VERY proud of Pastor Bob standing up for what he believes in. I get so tired of people trying to make excuses for sin or try and put a spin on what God’s Word really means about homosexuality or sin in general.

Just a thought amongst the adults on this forum….

Has it ever truly occured to anyone who ponders the issue of homosexuality how perfectly the male and female reproductive organs compliment one another?
How can anyone argue against the Divine plan of male and female? How can anyone possibly believe that those who have the same organs, whether male or female, are destined or designed to be with one another?

Think about it…

Pastor Bob, you begin by saying you are a sinner, but you don’t say in what ways. Only a coward or a liar would lay out each of his own sins before he starts condemning another person for any specific sin of theirs.

Sorry, Rachel Crawford:
The ultimate moral relativism comes from different sets of people arguing that only they have access to the one true path of morality, knowledge, and understanding. Absolutism becomes nothing more than relativism with so many alternatives.

ricardo,

We are not animals, or bugs.
Unlike the the species that you mentioned, Scripture tells us that God created Man…In His Image.
No other species on Earth can make that claim.
Humans are unique in the sight of God.
God created male and female with accompanying sex organs.
It cannot be denied.

Joe: News flash: humans are animals! What planet are you posting from?

Your logic is contradictory. Either complementary sex organs are evidence of a divine plan–in which case animals show evidence of both divine plan (complementarity) and divine screw-ups (traumatic insemination)–or they are not evidence of a divine plan. Or are you arguing that your god had no role in the complementarity of sex organs in animals, in which case I have to ask, who in the world would you say is responsible?

You fundamentalists are depressing, your tremendous brains saturated in ancient myths, deluded out of any ability to think and learn beyond the writing in a 2000 year old book. What a waste.

Thank you for taking a loving stand for truth. I can’t help but think of James 5:19-20 in regard to your article and appearance on Larry King Live, “My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.” May the Lord use your loving message to restore Jennifer to Himself.

——————————————————————————–

ricardo…

It always amazes me how lost people like yourself attempt to utilize science to comprehend the Master of the Universe, King Jesus, Who is a Spirit. Although He is the creator of all things scientific, spiritual things can only be spiritually discerned. Since you are spiritually dead, you do not have the ability nor capacity to comprehend the things of the Spirit, so attempting to communicate spiritual things to you is totally fruitless.

You will never understand until you humble yourself and seek Jesus, get yourself spiritually reborn, then you can see what the rest of us see.
Until then, talking to you is like trying to explain how a clutch works to a five year old.

Regarding the interview on LKL last night:

If the Bible is the divine, inerrant word of God, why is it that so many different interpretations (denominations) exist?

Why do countless people sit in Bible study groups discussing what they believe a particular verse or chapter means (at least in my experience)?

Isn’t the very act of reading and trying to comprehend the bible and apply it’s teaching’s to your life an act of interpretation?

Why did God not create a divine text that when read by anyone would provide God’s will for us and our path through life?

Simply put, if God did not want or expect differing interpretations… can we not assume that he would not have provided us with a text that produces them with such variety?

Would really appreciate a response, thanks.

Joe:

Unbelievable. You are the one who used an observation of “science,” as you define it, to provide an argument for evidence of the divine. Can you be any more self-contradictory?

Apparently you don’t have a clue what science is, as I did not use any in my argument. Only logic. And your argument is empty: you cannnot understand me, so there is no need for me to explain anything or to justify my poor logic. Because I “see” things that you cannot.

If you want to explain some contradiction in my logic, feel free. I already did so for yours, which you ignored in your response. Otherwise you are just stroking yourself in the certainty of your magical awareness.

Here’s a case in hypocrasy:

Evolutionist, the “no god” camp, aruges their points.

Ok, there it was, if you missed, let me explain: How is it that anyone who believes they are here completely by chance, merely the result of millions of years of random accidents after “nothing” exploded, conclude that their opinions have any meaning whatsoever? You see if we’re all just random accidents then arguing anything is pointless because it has no meaning…. still you find these guys passionately arguing their ideas over and over and over calling the “God camp” hypocrites…

I find that funny, really funny…

Well actually before survival of the fittest, there was the Big Bang right? (according to the Evo camp) Ok, so the Big Bang was intentional, not a random accident? So, then you believe in God..

Great! Church is at 8am, see you there! )

Wow, this is such disheartening news about Jennifer. Bob, I just ran across your blog. Great to connect. Sorry I missed the Larry King Live show date.

–Terrace Crawford

Sandra: another one of those mysterious ways

Seems like PB is the fame whore…

PB,

I hope you have been encouraged by the support by most of the comments here, and not surprised by the inevitable responses by others. There is no more controversial subject that you could possibly deal with now when it involves God’s Word and His Will than homosexuality at this time. No matter how clear the Bible states a position, there will always be those whose try to turn something black, into something white. The Church, and the world seems to be constantly yielding to the arguments for the acceptance of homosexual conduct not because it it right in God’s eye, but simply by yielding to the pressure to be politically correct/popular/”loving” in this day and age.

God’s nature was never changed, and neither has His Word. Just as the Pharisees misunderstood His Will, so can people today, even with a multitude of prestigious degrees and titles.

We are all individually responsible and accountable for our choices, but most people seem to find it more important to them to feel good or satisfied with what they want. Rather than yield all of their desires to to God, it is more important to put their wants before anything(or anyOne) else. Our way of showing our love for Him (and how important He is to us), is by willingly putting aside our desires, and searching out(and obeying) what His desires are for us. If we truly can appreciate what Jesus did for us, then we would hold nothing higher than to love and obey Him.

It is a fact that man(and woman) are very selfish, prideful, and disobedient creatures, and that will never fully change. It is only by the Grace of God, and His empowering, that any of us can break free of our sinfulness and self gratification. It’s only by our embracing God’s Will, Word, and love will we ever to be able to be rescued from the curse of sin.

Love is not letting someone do what they want and feel good about, it is warning them and doing whatever you can to keep them from perishing to a inevitable consequence. God shows His love for us be speaking the truth throughout Scripture, and allowing all of us to choose how we respond.

PB,
Firstly, I congratulate you countless times! You have done something that takes so much courage, love, care, and time! I know some have only pushed you down for doing so, but don’t forget, there are still many out there who are on your side!
Secondly, God bless you! And I pray you are continually filled with the heart-stopping knowledge and love that God has given you.
Next, I pray for all those who are still blinded with this world’s polluted way of thinking and living. May all of those blogging and listening be blessed with the love that PB has to share, through God.
And Lastly, I am proud of a fellow brother in Christ for being so bold and courageous in the Lord! I thank you more than words can say. This is an amazing thing you’ve done, and I know you have changed lives.

God bless!
Elly.

Dear Pastor Bob,
i am a 17 year old girl with a heart that desires more of Jesus. i have grown up in the church and when i was younger Jennifer Knapp’s music was very encouraging to me and many other believers. when i heard the news about her coming out about being a lesbian, my heart broke for her. My prayer for Jennifer is that she would come back to Jesus and obey Him with all of her heart, mind, and soul. I am thankful for Christians and Pastors like you who proclaim the Word of God, even under difficult circumstances. I will continue to pray for you and your ministry.
alex

Kudo’s to Pastor Bob for standing for truth! How easy it is for all of us sinners to justify, try to find one word, Greek, Hebrew, whatever to make us feel better when we KNOW we are sinning. It is also easier to sin, when we have a back up person that aids in justifying sin.
Many are interpreting the Word in lots of ways. I do not see the difficulty in understanding the word NO.
Justifcation of sin, is what so many of us do. During my horrid days of alcholism, I justified it all. It was not MY doing, but everyone, and all around me. The answer GOD gives, is NO. How difficult is that?
I felt her resentments, I felt her justification. I truly feel she is not representative of what I believe in. Homosexuality is a sin. You all act as though Pastor Bob wrote the book, Shoot the messenger. IT is so simple. NO.
We can all find alterior paths the will ease the pains of sin, we can always find someone to say, GOD IS LOVE. He surely is, however HE has rules, commandments, order in His Kingdom, and I for one, after being saved, have zero intention of slapping him in the face.
Jennifer, Your light could shine so bright in HIS Word. Stop making a mockery of HIS Glory.

I was praying for you as were many others, I was so thankful for your opportunity to speak the truth in love and that is what the country heard….God’s word does not return void….the difference between my sin and Jennifer’s is clear, I call my sin ,sin…She clearly does not….her sin is unrepentant, that is the difference. and the difference is HUGH…I come to the cross and ask God for forgiveness, she is claiming her homosexuality is not sin…..I pray that her blindness is removed….you helped her do that, and God is pleased….Praise God for your obedience,boldness, and love for our precious savior…I am so blessed to be able to have such a passionate pastor who is not afraid to stand up for the truth…..you are truly an amazing servant leader who walks the walk….keep on doing what your doing, my prayers are with you always….

Ricardo: Thanks, but not quite the response I was looking for…Unfortunately, it’s the standard response I get for not only this question but many others.

Are ignorance and credulity the most important characteristics required of a person of faith? I truly hope not.

Still hoping for a response.

Pastor Bob,
Larry asked you if you ate shellfish and you replied that you do because G~d changed; however, the Bible tells us G~d does not change. The Scriptures that are interpreted as G~d seeming to change His mind are human attempts to explain the actions of G~d. Please read Hope Egan’s book Holy Cow! Egan interprets Peter’s vision as a metaphor for people, not food, and therefore views the dietary laws as still binding. In her view, they are not justified again in the New Testament because they are simply non-negotiable. Yeshua ate Kosher & so should we. Please prayerfully research this issue.

Rudyboy, thanks for they reply. I can’t say i agree with all you’ve posted but that’s the point of these discussions, isn’t it?

I agree that this isn’t exactly the subject being discussed by people responding to the blog. I think you can agree that these are all comments in response to the LKL interview that Pastor Bob was a part of. One of the major issues (in my opinion, the most important) dividing the 3 guests on the show (and the host) was each person’s personal interpretation of the Bible. It was not my intent to respond to responses but the initial blog and interview, just as i stated.

For the record, I never stated that interpretations EQUAL denominations, merely that denominations arose BECAUSE of interpretations. I do not argue that it was man who created these denominations, only question was why an inerrant, inspired text given to us by God was not created in order for his children to understand, unambiguously, what he requires from us in our lives, is God not capable of this, if it His intent?
My question, if the Bible is inspired by God, it would stand to reason that in creating the text that exists, he MUST have known the way we men would read it, and following this line of reasoning… this was his intent. Whether or not you agree with my reasoning, the fact remains… different interpretations exist; How does one go about choosing which one of these is correct, to know which one is God’s?

Just want to clarify one thing, when I write about people’s interpretations of the Bible, I don’t mean interpretations people use as justification for their own benefit (that’s another discussion), I mean honest people, searching for guidance and trying to live their lives as God requires.

Lastly, you listed quite a few verses that when you read, admittedly, seem to leave no room for interpretation; Rather than discuss each verse separately, I’d like to give you only two verses, both regarding the same issue (for the sake of brevity) that upon reading seem, also, to leave no room for interpretation but have been reinterpreted by man over the past half to full century and most (i hope) Christians are not offended by the interpretation being modified.

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord” -Colossians 4:6

“Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive” -Titus 2:9-10

I list these not to argue the issue of slavery, only to illustrate the legitimate confusion of many people trying in all humility (myself included) to find, to quote you… “God’s interpretation”.

I hope my comments didn’t and don’t seem overly critical or judgmental of anybody, whether it be Pastor Bob or anybody else. That’s not my intent. These are honest questions I have… questions that I believe many people stuggle with (not only the guests of LJL the other night) and issues that I believe people have a right to discuss without judgement.

Thanks.

I appreciated your stand. Although Larry King did his best to discredit, the words you spoke will not be soon forgotten by many who tuned in

Thank you for being light in the world. I appreciate you being on Larry King speaking what Gods word says about homosexuality being a sin.

Folks, there are MANY Bible helps & resources available, some even free online, which give EXACT definitions of the original text. For anyone to wonder, speculate, and worse yet, misinterpret or misstate God’s Word is inexcusible. It is simply due to not taking the time to diligently study (not merely casually read) God’s Word & rightly dividing the Word of truth as one who is not ashamed.

Remove all doubt from the equation if concerns exist about translations. Spiros Zodhiates (a Greek guy) has a great Bible called “The Hebrew Greek Key Study Bible” which has numbers superscripted next to many key words in the Bible. These numbers correspond to Strong’s Concordance numbered Hebrew & Greek words in the appendix which include the original languages’ words & their literal translations into English. I’ve used this Bible for 14 years & love it! You can also buy inexpensive reference books like Strong’s Concordance, Vine’s Expository Dictionary, et al to give answers to your questions.

Don’t be satisfied with lack of information, especially if you think your eternal salvation may be on the line. Pray to God with an open heart & mind and read your Bible to learn from Him. Use Bible reference books & tools to further guide you into God’s truth rather than rely on man’s speculations, or worse yet, heresies. Learn to LOVE the study of God’s Word.

Then, read Romans chapter 1 & other Bible passages to CLEARLY see as God sees re: homosexuality is a sin & an abomination. God loves us indeed, and loves us so much He wants us to abandon our sin so nothing will separate us from His love in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans chapter 8)!

Thank you Pastor Bob for speaking the truth in love during the Larry King show. Me and my wife tumbled upon the show and became immersed in the show. It’s very difficult to understand how a ‘Christian’ can turn from the truth and believe the devil’s lie. Me and my wife were praying for you during the show to help you express God’s word in truth and love, which you did.

Brother Bob,

My wife and I just watched the Larry King interview and wanted to say thank you for an outstanding job. You maintained your poise and truly set a wonderful example of how to share the Word of God in difficult situations. There is too much justifying and de-sensitzing in our world and it is a shame that Jennifer wants to exploit her relationship as “okay”.

God Bless.

Marc & Genie Carr

You came across in the interview as a self-justifier and pompous ass. If your goal was to reach out to Jennifer, you appear to have failed. Rather than convey brotherly love to a fellow human being, you passed moral judgment.

Your ego and self-righteousness are evident.

People like you are the reason I have ceased regular church attendance and choose to worship God and strengthen my relationship with Jesus in the sanctuary of my own home.

Dear Bob, The Lord used you to convict her, but she held tight ( in the form of Larry King) to the world. She knows she has turned her back on God, but to justify it she is clinging to the flesh. Thank you for simply being true to our Lord and for stating scripture as it is;Gods Word. Have joy in the Lord and stay stoked on Jesus!!!!!

Cynthia: Evolutionary biology does not rely on explanations for how the world works that were believed or written about 2000 years ago. “Go back” is a meaningless way to imply equivalency.

apparently, Pastor Bob thinks he speaks for all of Christendom and God. loads of Christians and denominations see no conflict between gay and faith. he seemed out of touch with this fact.

Pastor Bob,
As I can see you have plenty of support, but felt lead to email you and let you know that it was clear to me that you relied on the Lord for your answers.(Luke 12:11-12) Thank you for your obidence to the Lord. I was astonished at the way they came at you, including Mr. King, I just thankful you kept you peace in Jesus and used His Word, we love you and pray for you, as well as for your three persecuters.

Thank you Pastor Bob for representing our faith on National Television. Its a dark world we live in and as a fellow Christian, ‘called out’ to stand up for what we believe in, there is a deep appreciation of how lonely it can be. Praise God for giving you complete strength and wisdom to share the truth in Love!

Treasures Await you in Heaven!
Blessings to you and the fam!
“Coop”

Bob, you sad, petty little man. God changed his mind on shellfish? Are you kidding me? You need to go back under the bridge from which you came, little troll.

Sandra:

Your comments are most graciously appreciated. Your response to my comments are extremely well founded. It is with great care I am responding to you.

The statement you made is a fair one, and I quote, “My question, if the Bible is inspired by God, it would stand to reason that in creating the text that exists, he MUST have known the way we men would read it, and following this line of reasoning… this was his intent. Whether or not you agree with my reasoning, the fact remains… different interpretations exist; How does one go about choosing which one of these is correct, to know which one is God’s?”

That is where the Holy Spirit comes in.

Inspiration from God is unique to every person and therefore He (GOD) reveals Himself as He sees fit. What the HS reveals to you and convicts you of works in the same manner.

Let’s assume for a moment based on our sinful nature, we fail in a particular area such as lying. The HS convicts you of that. You repent and come forth with the truth. Great.

OTOH let’s assume we take that same lie and then concoct a story to explain away what happened. The HS convicts you, but you say “God that’s my story and I am sticking to it.” Just because you tell your story, doesn’t mean it’s the truth. It’s YOUR truth. (No offense here.)

Interpretation, used in the proper context, should mean translation then? Is that your understanding, just to be clear?

Pastor Bob,

I just want to thank you for standing up for the truth of God’s Word. I normally attend your church, but today we were out of town and visiting another church. The message was on the Beattitudes in Matthew 5 and specifically talked about how if you live a Godly life in Christ Jesus you will be persecuted. That is a promise. From what I have seen in you, Bob, you do live a Godly life and do speak the truth according to the Word of God. I just want you to know that there are so many Christians out there that agree with you 100% and fully support you and are praying for you. My prayer is that all believing Christians will put on the full armor of God in these last days as the enemy prowls like a roaring lion. We need to know the Word and sew to the things of God as much as we possibly can. Hang in there, Bob. The Lord Jesus Christ is with you!

DORIS: I THINK ONLINE SHOUTING COMES FROM CHILDREN BEING MOLESTED DURING CHILDHOOD! DOES EVERYONE IN MS SHOUT, IT MUST BE VERY NOISY THERE!!!

Pastor Bob you could have not put it anyother way with so much love and tenderness along with THE WORD. But no matter wat else you could have said someone not willing to repent will not budge. Just know that we will be persecuted for standing upon the Word of God. I Love You Brother!

Pastor Bob,
I just want you to know that i watched your response on youtube. I really would like to encourage you along with many others, that i feel that you represented Jesus so powerfully in grace and tenderness with a very difficult and emotionally intense situation. You may have been outnumbered in the studio, but i know that the Spirit of God was upon you to preach liberty to the captives in the only way our Lord operates- pure love in humility. i realize that you will be under intense scrutiny, ridicule, and attack for standing up in the manner that you did. i am lifting you up in prayer. You were on the front lines of the battle and God used you so very mightily. But you did not fight the battle with condemnation and judgementalism in anyway, but with mercy and a genuine love to see our sister return to the Lord. i feel you represented Jesus for all of us in such a real and compassionate way. Thank you for speaking the Truth that is the anchor to our souls in a society of moral relativists. To God be the Glory! Be blessed!

Pastor Bob, I appreciate that you will stand up for God’s Word. We need leaders/mentors that will walk their talk and live out the example that Christ teaches us and you are doing that.

I read many messages on Larry King Live website and it breaks my heart to read their views of God’s Word and proclaim to follow Christ…or not! Fortunately, there were many positive views on there as well. I wrote my 2 cents worth on the blog. I also wrote to Larry King personally as well (seems a bit odd to bring Haggard on as if he’s qualified on the subject).

Thank you for Standing Firm in your Faith! Praying for you!

Doris,
Do you feel like a good Christian accusing every family of a gay person of child molestation? Seems more likely to me that someone who thinks of herself as a dirty rag must have experienced abuse in her past. I hope you can get help with that degree of self-loathing.

You did good, Pastor Bob!

Jen,
Maybe they (those that you say are on God’s side) should show a little anger. At least that would be real!! I’m sure God is saddened, if not angry about a number of the things that have been posted here.

Good job Bob for standing up for the truth in love!
I am reminded of 2 Tim 4:3-4 where is says, “For a time will come when men will not put up with sound docterine. Instead, to suit their own desires they will gather around them a great number of teacher who will say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”
Homosexuality is a heart breaking issue for all involved. The bible is clear and the church needs to be salt and light for those struggling!

Hello Posters Kimberley, aTraex, Rev. Joe, and other like minded posters who are advocating sexual immorality.

When you notice the man & woman, you will note that their parts fit together, so as to go forth and multiply. Male and female animals do the same, as per the cycle that God the Creator has imputed in the animal that God created. Man made in God’s image however experiences pleasure during these moments of intimacy.

It is quite clear to a repairman such as myself that the man to man, or woman to woman match up is a puzzle that does not fit together. That is why the Homosexual, Bisexual, LGBT, world must invent ways of sexual contact that God the Creator never intended.

Why? Coz’ when people do what is NOT natural, it becomes what? UN-NATURAL, that is correct. It is a doctrine of demons to promote what is un-natural.

Now the Heterosexual people are not without blemish. There are plenty of men and woman who having had sexual contact outside of marriage (which God says is between a husband and a wife in 1 Cor 7:2) have gone and had abortions, lived together, etc. The fact is that the sin of heterosexual immorality in the western professing Christian church is probably more common than the sin of the homo – bi immorality in the western professing Christian world. …. Please read Romans 1:18-32

But this thread is about the Jennifer Knapp coming out, and the professing Christians who agree with Jennifer, that have posted here on this thread, and have said ……….
“I am a red letter Christian”,
and “the Pauline doctrines don’t fit today”
and “God didn’t destroy Sodom for homosexuality, but because the Sodomites were not hospitable to the angels”
(wow, I guess homosexuality practiced in Sodom is just a coincidence that the city was named Sodom).
…….. What nonsense!!!!!

Did you know first of all that…..
“The entirety of Your word is truth, and every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever” or that “Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path” Psalm 119:160 & 105.

That is the word of God. You see I am a Bible person, the Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible. Yup this ol’ repairman believes it to be the actual WORD of GOD the CREATOR of all that there is.

Did you know that…..
“knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit” 2 Peter 1:20-21.

My goodness God is right again. “NO PRIVATE INTERPRETATION” “THE ENTIRETY…..IS TRUTH” “A LAMP”
My sadness is bolstered by professing christians who read into God’s word the answers they want, so as to affirm the sin they love so much.

“And this is the condemnation, that light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed”. Thats John 3:19-20.

God says to read out of His Word the meaning that He intended for the answers. NOT read into His Word the answers that satisfy our desires to continue practicing sin.

It is better to obey God, rather than man.
Blessings, Mr. Sunset, Eph 1:3

So if she came out and said she liked animals..is that a “who cares” response too? Where do draw the line for all other orientations, Rachel?

Wait, let me guess as long as she’s happy, is all that matters?

Thanks for standing against evil and for doing it on a very big stage. The truth was presented. In Act 18:6 Paul recognized that at least he knew that he had done his job, even if the audience refused to heed. Brother, you are clean…

Rudyboy,

Thanks again for your thoughtful responses.

Just to answer your final question before I go any further, I believe that interpretation can be someone’s private understanding of the text, though study and prayer; I also believe interpretation is somewhat involved in translation, translators being mere humans.

What you wrote about the Holy Spirit I wholeheartedly agree with, and I hope that all Christians would not hesitate to believe the same.

“Inspiration from God is unique to every person and therefore He (GOD) reveals Himself as He sees fit. What the HS reveals to you and convicts you of works in the same manner.”

I also agree that it is possible for humans to interpret the Bible in a way to suit their own personal wants rather than God’s.

Here’s where my hesitation comes in: when we as fallible humans, making an honest attempt to follow God and allow the HS to lead us in our understanding of the Bible allow ourselves to judge others because they do not share our views. Could we not be as wrong as they?

What I’ve decided to do in my life is share my viewpoint, listen to others, pray for them and love them, whether my views are similar or vastly different (even if I’m convinced they are wrong), and allow God to take it from there… because in the end it’s just between us and Him, isn’t it?

To those who choose to justify their sin while proclaiming their faith in
Christ, here’s what Jennifer Knapp says in her song “Trinity”…

“You in the mirror, starin’ back at me.
O, conscience let me be…to the pure, all things are pure.
To those who’re DEFILED, unbelieving nothing is pure.
Their minds, their conscience DEFILED. They profess to know God but decieve Him by deeds all the while. Do I stand on the Rock or the sand?
Holy Spirit won’t you help me understand? Holy Spirit won’t you say a prayer for me?
My mind , my conscience DEFILED. Send the blood of the lamb, don’t leave me in exile. What was that promise on the cross at Calvary? Confess the Lord and the truth will set you free. Create in me a clean heart, O God. Renew a steadfast spirit within me. To my prayers You’ve always given heed. Blessed be thy God, who never turned away from me. Hid His face from all my sin , forgot my iniquity. Raise your hands, sing praises to the Lord. He’s the King and He’ll reign forevermore. He died upon the cross at Calvary. He died to save a wretch like me.” ….Jennifer Knapp

Jen,
“Loving toward the sinner” is hogwash. If you are angry at the sin then by all means get together in a room and chant angrily about the sin. Watch videos of the sin and get yourselves worked up in anger for all anyone cares. But you think it is your place to take on your god’s role by condemning other people’s behavior (even those who don’t believe the fairy tales you do, or who have a different understanding of your fairy tales). If the big spirit in the sky wants to condemn people for their behaviors he’ll do so in the end, but taking on his role shows a complete lack of humility. There is no expression of love in telling people they are going to hell if they don’t change their ways to conform to what you think they should do, or what you think your god thinks they should do.

Thank you Pastor Bob for standing up for the truth. The truth is unpopular, but guess what? There are biblical guidelines for living and God’s word should not be sugarcoated to condone someone elses’ needs. Jennifer Knapp, Haggard and Larry King are all out of line (Larry King has some issues right now with his 7th wife) questioning. These people should be in prayer and hopefully they will turn to Christ.

Correction: The part of about the Bible being literary. I meant to say “literal” as parts in the Bible are to be taken literally. (That is if you read in proper context. You must read the previous chapter, current chapter, and following chapter from a text verse to gather its full meaning.) I’m sure no example is necessary. It is not my intention to patronize, offend, or belittle anyone with my posts or explanations. (That’s my disclaimer!)

Pastor Bob,
I’m not sure if you’d remember me, but I’m currently a first grade assistant at Prep. I had a chance to watch your interview with Jennifer Knapp and read the blog where you addressed her decision to come out. I was telling Betsy at Prep today that I have never been more proud to call you my pastor as when I saw that interview. You were so calm and brought everything back to Scripture, even though she was foaming at the mouth and spewing angry words towards you. Your unwavering, yet gentle approach spoke for itself. Thank you for having a backbone & being unashamed to stand up for what is right. I love what you did and the way in which you did it. It was clearly motivated by love for her and love for Truth, as outlined in God’s Word. So many pastors are adopting this “grace and love” lip service that really just translates to an abuse of grace and failure to live in the freedom that Jesus offers.
Thank you again for being outspoken for Truth and risking persecution for the sake of righteousness. May God bless you for being bold enough to take a stand and call a spade a spade.
Blessings,
Jen Brown
Eph, 3:20

Jen,
I reread Doris’ post. She screams:
I THINK HOMOSEXULATIY AND LESBIANS COME FROM CHILDREN BEING MOLESTED DURING CHILDHOOD AND DO NOT KNOW WHICH WAY TO GO.
She certainly says that every gay person was molested. Do you think she is implying instead that every gay person has a family that allowed their children to be molested by someone outside the family? What is your interpretation of kindness and compassion?

I’m sure glad I have a Bible and the freedom to read it.

At age 29, I picked up the Bible for the first time in my life, read it, repented and sincerely invited Jesus Christ into my life.

Through knowing and trusting WHO God IS, I discovered that I was free to walk away from the homosexual label after fifteen years. THAT ALONE is the greatest freedom that anyone could have ever have given me… THANK YOU, MY LORD AND MY GOD.

I Corinthians 3:16
“Do you NOT know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit Dwells in you?”

Just dropped in to read more posts. The actual purpose of this post was most likely:

1. Encourage Pastor Bob-after all, this is part of his site.
2. Discuss the LKL show with health discussion.
3. Education about the topic and how it relates to Christianity.

The last one (#3) is obvious. Jennifer stopped being a Christian artist/musician and “came out” as a lesbian.

The people in charge of this site have gone through great pains to ensure everyone has a fair say. Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with this site, PB, or Horizon Fellowship.

For those of you leaving posts that argue against Christianity. I personally respect your position. I may disagree with your opinion, but you have a right to one. However, leave out your name calling and yelling by using all CAPS. We can read just fine without it.

It’s not respectful. It’s rude and uncalled for. If you choose to disagree with everyone around you, that’s fine. But if the mods delete your posts due to the above reasons (not simply disagreeing) don’t be surprised.

Everyone can be heard without swearing, name calling, and rudeness. All that does is frustrate others while you demonstrate your level poor level of education. (I’m not referring to poverty level either.)

This is not meant to be offensive, but instead to be corrective.

Best regards,

R…

Mr. Sunset,

I read your posts, thanks for bringing them to my attention.

I do not dispute 2 Peter 1:20-21, in fact I fully agree with it. The Bible is the inspired word of God. Period.

Have you ever participated in a Bible-study? I’ll assume you have. I can recall countless gatherings where I spent time with fellow Christians discussing a single verse, discussing how it applied to our lives and what God was telling us through this verse, many times reaching differing conclusions. Do you think God only meant for Biblical scholars to read his word? I hope not.

I hope I’m not naive in believing that God is quite capable of leading any heart willing to listen to understand the Bible just as He sees fit…even if his or her interpretation varies from the Christian sitting in Bible study right next to him.

I reread your comment about Hinduism. I’m open to your criticism, I honestly just don’t quite understand it.

RUDYBOY,
I looked through all the posts. Those shouting in ALL CAPS are all Christians: Carolyn, Hernandez, Grandma of 7, Anne, and Doris. Ricardo posted in all caps to mock Doris. A bunch of other Christians shouted specific words, including REPENTANCE, IT LEADS TO DEATH, ABOMINATION, LIE, and DEFILED. It seems the Christians are the ones who are shouting angrily. As for name calling, do you think it is nice to call someone a sinner, unnatural, a dirty rag, a stupid cow? It appears you have a beam in your eye.

“God changed his mind on shellfish.” Could you not have worded that a different way?

SANDRA, Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

Your following comments is where I lost you….
1] Just to answer your final question before I go any further, I believe that interpretation can be someone’s private understanding of the text, though study and prayer; I also believe interpretation is somewhat involved in translation, translators being mere humans.

1 Peter 2:20-21 ….. No Private Interpretation. ….. I’ve been in many Bible studies with others. Sometimes it is led in an eisegeis format. A verse or a passage is read & then comes the question, what does that mean to you? Rather in an exegeis format the question would be what is God saying here?

2] Inspiration from God is unique to every person and therefore He (GOD) reveals Himself as He sees fit. What the HS reveals to you and convicts you of works in the same manner.”

What do you mean when you say “inspiration”?

3] Here’s where my hesitation comes in: when we as fallible humans, making an honest attempt to follow God and allow the HS to lead us in our understanding of the Bible allow ourselves to judge others because they do not share our views. Could we not be as wrong as they?

I am assuming here Sandra that you are still talking about Jennifer Knapp’s coming out and Bob Botsford on CNN…. So I refer to your “because they do not share out views” ….. We are commanded as Christians to judge rightly when professing christians are “Practicing” a sin. Please read 1 Cor 5.

Blessings to you.

That took guts, Bob. We live in this world, but we aren’t OF it.. Thank you for representing God’s Truth in the midst of hungry lions. But may the gay community know that we love them even though we don’t agree with them!! You were so right to say that God is the judge. We are not. But we are definately called as believers to repremand believers who have fallen into a LIFESTYLE of sin.
God bless you, Bob, for standing up for truth.

THANK YOU for standing up for RIGHTEOUSNESS!!

It’s funny how Christians do that so their egos can feel vindicated about justifying their positions on morality. Time has shown that what we thought to be true really wasn’t. For example: The earth was flat! The other problem…Christ had to come down and show what the truth was for the people of that time. They had it wrong too. Righteous is one word that a Christian should not use since it means to be “Morally upright; without guilt or sin.” We all know there is no Christians alive today who has not sin and all continue to sin. But, let’s remember that word righteous can have several different meanings… It’s all about your perspective based on your personal experiences that will define how you interpret the meaning of that word.

HEY TRACY…..
Good thing your parents were “Heterosexual”. Right Tracy?

Did you know Tracy that the translations you pointed out come from original manuscripts?
Did you know Tracy that there are not any 2 languages on earth that can be translated between each other word for word?
Did you know Tracy that you have been deceived into believing that people are born that way?
I believe what God says in Psalm 139.

What is the evidence that people are born that way???
Goggle Venus Magazine, and read what the Black Female editor has to say. Go on and do it Tracy.

Tracy since you came on this thread and talked out the side of your neck like an obvious Blind Guide who loves their sin, then you are marked as an anti-Christ since you clearly are masquerading as an angel of light 2 Cor 11.

There is hope for you Tracy………. Repent of your sin and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ of Israel.

A literal interpretation takes into account the historical context and that context determines the interpretation.

It’s no wonder the Church of today is so messed up. You can see it purely in how people are reacting.

Mr. Sunset

Do you know what the definition of emotional maturity is? It’s the ability to express one’s own feelings and convictions balanced with consideration for the thoughts and feelings of others.

Sort of like Luke 6:31 “Do to others as you would have them do to you.”

“You like to use God’s Word to tell me to leave you alone and accept your opinion.”

Did I use God’s word to tell you to leave me alone. No I didn’t. That is your assumptions and interpretations of what you believe I am writing.

Thank you for making my point.

O.K. Tracy you get credit for trying to backup your post On April 27th @ 10:12am on this thread, you Tracy said …..
“It’s been proven that homosexuals are born this way, which means God created them. Just like there are other homosexual animals in God’s kingdom.”

a review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl does not substantiate your post I quote you here. This reseach by B.B. DOES NOT PROVE that God the Creator birthed animals or people to be homosexuals.

Tracy you said “it’s been proven….” Now if you Tracy want to amend your post to something like “I believe that homosexuals are born that way” I can accept you having your opinion Tracy, no problem.

But “its been proven……” sorry Tracy no way, you have gone too far with that, and it is not now true, and no one yet has proven it. Not any more than people are born bad drivers.

Tracy please believe God and what he says in His Word. He is always right. And Tracy if you have ever told a lie, or sassed your parents, or taken another kids toy, or worshiped another god, or lusted after another persons body or possession, then Tracy you have sinned. Myself Tracy, I have sinned since I first told my parents NO, and all the sin after that. I need God’s forgiveness for my sin through the shed blood of the only one Who can save be, the One Who led the perfect life that I could never live, Jesus the Christ.

There’s a pump ticking in my chest, and when God says “LAST BREATH Sunset” that’s it, and I will bow my knee before Him to Whom I must give account, and when He asks me “Who do you say that Iam”, I will say you are the Messiah, the only begotten Son of God.

Thank you Tracy for your time, and may you come to know the fullness of the love of God that is in His Son Yeshua HaMashiach Ysrael

Thank you for your bold witness on Larry King and thank you for standing up for God’s Word and caring more about what He thinks rather than what man thinks.

Robyn – yes, I see what Doris wrote. I said I don’t agree with her that EVERY gay person was sexually abused. Furthermore, she does not say that she thinks that the gay person’s family members are who molested them. Clearly, many people are abused without their family knowing about it. Yes, some know and do nothing…so sad. Yes, some do the abuse…also so sad. Apparently loving sinners is “hogwash” for you, but not for me and MANY Christians. God does love us all and we are all sinners. The point many are clearly missing is that there is BIG difference between acknowlegding your sin to repentance (turning away from) and willingfully living in that sin expecting it to be okay. We’ll just agree to disagree. Praying for you!

Dear Joseph:

The comment I made was for everyone to read. Christians or not. I did not target any one person. It was a general observation. Suffice it to say that name calling, rudeness, calling someone a sinner, unnatural, a dirty rag, and a stupid cow is extremely uncalled for. Your comment, and I quote,’ It appears you have a beam in your eye.’ doesn’t fly with me because I made no such comments.

If you read my post, it was strictly to get everyone to reconsider their animosity towards others. Using animosity towards others is flat out wrong. I have no idea who is a Christian or not on this blog. Those who profess to be a Christian and use those adjectives as described should definitely apologize.

I will happily apologize to those I may have offended. That would include you Joseph.

God bless,

R…

I was very impressed with the way PB defended the Gospel. He spoke in love and was not judgmental in any way. I only wish he had gone further to explain the difference btw the sins of a repentant believer and the habitual sin of the unrepentant homosexual. While some may debate over the appropriate translation of a word in one particular passage ( and anyone who seriously studies the Bible should acknowledge the difficulties of translating Hebrew and Greek ) , it seems that all of the references concerning homosexuality taken as a whole would lead one to conclude that God sees it as sin. God’s ideal is the union of man and woman. Jennifer herself seemed unable to articulate her argument as to whether or not homosexuality is a sin. On the one hand, I understood her to say that it was not sin b/c the word homosexual was not being properly translated out of Scripture. On the other hand, she wanted to argue that Christians were declaring it as a sin more egregious than other sins. Which does she believe? Is it a sin or not? That’s the real problem; once acknowledged as sin, you cannot continue in it.

Blessings to PB and his ministry!!

Rudyboy,

Your response seems disingenuous. You started your statement about name calling and yelling this way: “For those of you leaving posts that argue against Christianity.” I don’t see how it could have been clearer at whom your comments were directed.

Now, I agree that civility all around is best, but the whole issue, which is about Christians judging others, telling them they are going to hell unless they behave one way or another, has no basis in civility. I feel that people, including Christians, should be free to believe as they do and to live according to those beliefs. By feeling and practicing otherwise, Christians create the climate of incivility.

My husband and I saw you on Larry King, and just wanted to thank you for your loving and truthful response to J. Knapp. She’s been one of our favorites, and our hearts go out to her. I believe you spoke for many, and certainly made us grateful to be counted among the Christians who stand with you for truth. May God bless your ministry.

“Possibly this is why homosexuals say they’ve always been attracted to the same sex. Homosexuality is a sin influenced by powerful demonic forces. But Jesus came to set the captives free”

Prove it.

“The church is BROKEN. The church of Jerusalem looked SOOOO different from what it is today.”

I think what has happened is the Church took on a role is shouldn’t have. Christ asked the people to go out tell people about God’s love and forgiveness through Christ. What happened is people thought it was appropriate to build structures to meet and worship there. If people had done what Christ really wanted them to do they would have gone out shown God’s love, helped each other, and lived a simple life. Instead land was purchased and money spent on elaborate structures even when there were homeless and starving people around them. Many Churches have a history of abuse in many forms and as the generations came up they got turned off by religion. The church now has an image of being a political powerhouse instead of a place representing love and forgiveness.

It was on the news last night that 60 percent of people don’t attend church and 67 percent don’t read the scriptures. That means Christians are a minority in our society. It also means that the message that Christ wanted so many to teach is being lost. That begs the question why. I think if you read the posts above you can see why. The righteousness that so many fell they have the right to call out is probably the biggest problem of all. The second biggest problem affecting all of us is the greed for materialistic things – that is shown in the fact our economy is built on our ability to spend in buying things – consumerism is our downfall and that includes the churches. You have to wonder what would happen if we tore down all the churches and used the land to grow food, build homes for the homeless if our society can change.

I volunteer my time going around in various communities painting people’s homes, cleaning their yards and fixing things in their homes, and I am always amazed when a neighbor walks up to us and says thank you for finally taking care of that mess. I often want to look at that person and ask them are you a Christian or not? It’s sad that so many have even lost the ability to help their neighbors out. Once we explain to them why this person’s home got to be this way their first reaction is usually “I am sorry I didn’t know.” It’s all about how you view others in this world and testing your assumptions that brings about personal growth and change.

Mr. Sunset,

You bring up 1 Peter 2:20-21 again, “…no prophecy of the Scripture came about by the prophets own interpretation. For prophecy never had its own origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God…”

Again, I am not disputing this verse in any way. Scripture came from God, through man.

Translation and interpretation, on the other hand (in my belief), is our simple attempt to make sense of what God is telling us. The best we can do is ask pray that God give us guidance in that endeavour.

I’ll give you another example of why I hesitate to assume my interpretation of any given verse trumps that of another Christian, honestly and humbly searching for guidance.

I pulled out my Zondervan NIV study Bible to see what it had to say about 1 Peter 2:20-21. I’ll directly quote it:

“Two major views of this verse are: (1) No Prophecy is to be privately or independently interpreted. The Holy Spirit, Scripture itself and the church should be included in the interpretative process. (2) No prophecy originated through the prophet’s own interpretation. The preceding and following contexts indicate that this view is probably to be preferred.”

Is one Biblical scholar more just in his opinion, does one have a deeper understanding of the Bible, or maybe one has not been led by the HS? I don’t know. I don’t care to know. I trust God to lead me to do his will in my life, that’s all that matters to me.

You mentioned the LKL interview again. I have made a effort to discuss the only the issues that the interview brought up, and I think should be discussed. I don’t think directly judging anyone involved is necessary or fruitful. My prayers include all of them, equally.

One question, to satisfy my own curiosity, if you’re willing:

How you understand the Biblical verses that refer to slavery…I listed a few in my previous posts. Is interpretation not apparent (necessary, even?) in today’s understanding of these verses.

I appreciate the polite, thought-provoking discussion.

“And he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them. And he marveled because of their unbelief…”

Mark 6:5-6

Did you catch the last sentence in that text?

Homosexuality was once thought to be a mental illness because mental health professionals and society had biased information.

biased information…I wonder how that happened?

Good Wednesday ya’ll

Kathleen, Tracy, & Sandra.

This is what Colossians 2:8 says about the American Pyschiatric Assoc. ………. “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.”

Kathleen,
Your posts are articulate and easy to understand, and for the most part show a woman who has read her Bible as taught by the Holy Spirit John 16:13, 1 John 2:27., and relate what God teaches.

Tracy,
You have made some good points. Yet the “has been proven” statement you and the H political arm promote can’t be believed. Even the editor of Venus magazine, (a pro-Homosexual mag.), a 30+ year Black lesbian who became born again, and repented of the “lifestyle” said that the “born that way” was a lie to move forward the H agenda. Even the Venus mag repented and now exposes the H political agenda lies.

Sandra,
I read an NIV study Bible 10 years, regularly. It is not a translation, but a dynamic equivalent paraphrase. Now I usually read a New King Jimmy or a New American Standard, and refer to the King Jimmy, the NIV, or others at the website blueletter.

When one is born again by God (John 1:12-13, 3:3,5,6,8 15:16,19) He, God is the believers Teacher (Mat 23:8, John 16:13, 1 John 2:27). The Holy Spirit has taught me much in the reading of the Word. There is plenty that is difficult (2 Peter 3:14-16)

Let’s just set aside for now the question “Does the Bible expressly say that homosexuality is a sin” In Gen 1:26-28, God made man & woman, they were to multiply. In Gen 2:24 man to be joined with his wife and become 1 flesh. In Gen 6:18 God established His covenant with Noah, his wife, his 3 son’s and their 3 wives. This is a couple thousand years before Israel and the law. It’s clear that a man & a woman as a couple is God’s intention for Mankind. In Gen 6:19-20, Noah was to take 2 of every animal, male & female.

There is no place in the Bible where a same sex union of any kind is permitted, or created by God. Every reference to homosexuality, sodomy, sodomites, perverted persons, etc. is that it is sin, it is not of God.

Any sex, heterosex, homosex, bisex, and all the other unmentionable sex unions are outside of the bonds of a marital union is sexual immorality, see 2 Cor 7:2 Because of sexual immorality a man should have his own wife & a woman should have her own husband.

God says that sex between a married man & woman is the only sexual relationship that is permitted by Him.

So, when Jennifer Knapp clearly stated her view on larry king, and in newsprint, she has in effect said she is going to pursue a lesbian lifestyle, and a christian faith. A duck can say “I am an Eagle”, but if it swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck ….. it’s a duck.

This Sandra is where 1 Cor 5:8-13 tells believers how to judge those professing believers in the Church. Based on what Jennifer Knapp has said. She is going to live her life as a lesbian. We pray she repents, and turns back to God, and His ways.

1988 the United Church of Canada, that country’s largest Protestant denomination, affirmed that “a) All persons, regardless of their sexual orientation, who profess Jesus Christ and obedience to Him, are welcome to be or become full member of the Church; and b) All members of the Church are eligible to be considered for the Ordered Ministry.” In 2000, the Church’s General Assembly further affirmed that “human sexual orientations, whether heterosexual or homosexual, are a gift from God and part of the marvelous diversity of creation.”

There are some churches in this world that do not believe like many of the people posting here do. So if you are a homosexual accept Jesus into your heart and know you are loved by God.

Sorry for the duplications of posts it didn’t go the first time then I rewrote it. Now it’s showing two. Oops…

Hopefully one can be deleted.

Tracy,

Misinterpretation of the Bible to justify a personal worldview or prejudice isn’t a wise choice. The only choice Jesus gives us is repent or perish. He said, “I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am He you will die in your sins” (John 8:24).

It’s foolish to trust in the constantly changing research findings of psychology or psychiatry. Your citing of DSM changes on homosexuality is a perfect example of why we shouldn’t be looking to them for answers.

On the flip side, God and His Word are unchangeable. “I the LORD do not change” (Malachi 3:6) and “Forever, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven” (Psalm 119:89) and Jesus said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away” (Matthew 24:35).

Yes, there are so-called churches who accept homosexuals but if Jesus were to supernaturally appear to those congregations He’d be thrown out, stoned, and spit upon in a heartbeat.

Kathleen the part you don’t seem to grasp is many homosexuals do believe in Christ’s love and God. I know you are going to keep pounding the sin part right. Well guess what you are a sinner too who also believes in Christ and you will continue to sin. And yes since you believe yourself to be so versed in the bible then when you do sin you knowing do so. Now what?

Tracy,

Oh, I grasp it. I see it daily when dealing with drug addicts
(mostly heroin users) because a lot of people believe in Christ’s love and profess they’re saved while refusing to repent of their sin as defined by scripture.

Also, I know I’m a sinner. As Paul, I am chief. I don’t seek to justify my sin; I agree with God about myself; I’m a worm.

We need an understanding of the book of Romans. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? The unregenerate soul says, “Yeah, that’s cool, I’ll continue in my sin and the blood of Jesus will cover it and He’ll still love me even if I sin habitually every single day,” when God says, “If you’re in Christ Jesus then you’re dead to sin.” Dead to sin? How can this be? If we’ve been born again then we were buried with Him in baptism unto death that we might be raised in newness of life. The answer to the entire sin problem is in Romans 5-8.

Anyone bound by a sin that will send them to hell while believing they’re in right standing before God and have no need of repentance are deceived. I see this daily and know my God is a God of the impossible. He will set the captives free! He will have a remnant in these last days that will glorigy Him.

O.K. SANDRA……….

Slavery, well back then there weren’t employers. slaves were employees. A slaves pay was room and board. Some were treated better than others.

In western culture people get jobs, they are employees (slaves) they work for employers (slave owners). Western culture is quite a bit more “civilized”. But our Lord Jesus said in Gal 3:28, You Jew, Gentile, male & female are one in Christ Jesus. As you know back then women were treated as property, something men owned. Jesus changed that and clarified God’s view of women.

Better?

Mr. Sunset,

In one of your posts above, you spoke about the woman who became born again, and repented of her lifestyle and you used this phrase:

“born that way” was a lie

That is PRECISELY the wording I’ve struggled to find so that I can finally move forward with my life. Wasn’t sure how to articulate this thought until now…

Thank you!!!

: )

You made an interesting comment on LK about adding to the scripture and quoted Revelation. You do understand that most of the New Testament wasn’t even compiled at that point? You sounded foolish. Sorry.

Kathleen:

You say it is foolish to trust in science because what we understand changes over time. That mentality is naively out of touch with how you actually spend your days, taking advantage of the fruits of scientific discovery. Likely >95% of of what you come into contact with and rely on is a direct or indirect product of a scientific approach to improving our understanding of the world (I’m assuming you know what I mean by a scientific approach). Fundamentalist thought is the left hand that claims to be completely unaware of what the right hand is actually doing for it.

Mr. Sunset.

The point I am trying to make is you can point to the bible keep trying to convince the homosexual beings of this world they are choosing to live in sin, but what you are not comprehending is even you are choosing to continue to live in sin. So everything you keep saying regarding this topic also applies to you. I don’t know where you live or how you live but if I was a betting person, which I am not, I going to “assume” you are surrounded by wealth. If you have pictures hanging on your walls, that is a want and not a need (meaning you have wealth) that is a sin, if you have a dishwasher that is a want and not a need, which is a sin. Obviously you have a computer and access to the internet that is a want and not a need, which is a sin. If you have more bedrooms with furniture in them that is a want and not a need, that is a sin. Get the picture? Unless you are living a life similar to Gandhi’s you are choosing a life of sin because you continually surround yourself with wealth. You will always be a sinner and this is only one example mind you. Mr. Sunset read the word of God a repent now before it is too late. Oh, and please remember this comes from a place of love Mr. Sunset. I am very concerned about your soul.

“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth”

This is why I believe that so many get turned off by the radical Christians like yourself because you claim you are pointing out another person’s sin in love not realizing the hypocrisy of your accusations. That is your ego or as some would like to claim devil inside you – and that is a sin. If the radical Christians don’t’ get their act together more and more will continue to be turned away from God and will not be saved. For me I try to be as humble as I possibly can in this crazy world of ours so that I can at least get a conversation going about Christ’s love without coming off so righteous that I actually look like a hypocrite.

Pastor Bob,

I want to first and formost say THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for speaking the truth in love. When I heard and watched the show, I was totally heartbroken. I felt Gods heart and cried for her. I am so blessed by pastors like you who are fearless and speak God’s truth. You are in my prayers, your family and your congregation. I know that this wasn’t easy but THANK YOU! In these times we will see more and more of this and I know it will only grieve the heart of God more and more. It truly lit a fire in me, to be as close to God as possible knowing that I too, break God’s heart when I sin. May God bless you. Thank you again for speaking truth, May Jesus Bless your day!

“Can one say they are a Christian and still live as a “Thief”??? Can one say they are a Christian and have sex with their neighbors spouse??? Can one say they are a Christian, follow their horoscope, and pray to the dead??? ………. The answer is YES, but only if the United Church of Canada, The Lutherans, The Presbetyrians, the United Methodists, Roman Catholizism, or Tracy. says it’s O.K.”

This accusation was surely uncalled for and does not come from a place of love.

God Bless everyone and thank your for sharing your thoughts.

Giovanna

Does the united church of canada approve of homosexual christians? Well according to Tracy they have since 1988.
Does the Roman Catholic church have priests who are pedophiles? Well of the 179 dioces in the USA, 177 have been found culpable, or settled out of court for pedophile priests destroying the lives of children they should have protected.
Does the Lutheran church ordain homosexuals? Yes
Does the Presbetyrian church ordain homosexuals? Yes.
Does the united methodist church ordain homosexuals? Yes.

when something is a FACT, it is not an accusation. Pull your head out of the sand.

Hey Pastor Bob,
Greetings from Finland!
I watched the Larry King Live on the internet. You really shone for Jesus, holding fast to the Word of Truth, shining as a star in heaven (Phil 2) May God’s mercy and grace continue to abound more and more as you endure in this crooked and perverse generation!
Delighting in Jesus,
-Sam

Joseph,

“For the time will come when… they shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables” (2 Timothy 4:3, 4).

FABLE:
Once you were a tadpole and began to begin,
Then you were a frog with your tail tucked in.
Next you were a monkey in a banyan tree,
Now you are a doctor with a PhD.

I laughed when I first read that but you’re probably not laughing.

I’m not into fundamentalist thought. I have the mind of Christ and He’s not a fundamentalist. By Him were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth, visible and invisible. All things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things and by Him all things consist. The entire universe is held together by the power of the Lord Jesus Christ, who said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.”

Yes, I believe it’s very foolish to trust any belief system that denies the deity of Jesus, His supernatural power, and anything else about Him. The so-called soft sciences (hard ones too) also deny the existence of Satan and his demons, so of course the APA doesn’t believe people bound by DSM mental disorders probably need deliverance. They no longer consider homosexuality a mental disorder, but it’s always been considered a sin by God, who commands all people everywhere to repent, because He has fixed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by Jesus Christ, and that day is soon.

“Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?”

Here is another part to that article.

“How could someone do what (the Church says) is wrong and not be living in sin?

As the Catholic Church understands it, wrong and sin are not the same thing. Wrong is harm, disorder, destruction; it is in the objective or external world. Sin is self-distancing from God; it is in the heart. Sin is more a general attitude than any particular action. We sin when we deliberately do what we believe is wrong. Then in our hearts we opt for evil. Then we move away from goodness and from God, who is good.

It may well be that what you do is not wrong at all. But if you think it is and you do it anyway, well, you are corrupt. That’s sin! Or what you do may really be wrong. But if you don’t honestly think so and you do it, well, your heart is not really amiss. You may be uninformed, naive, or stupid, and even dangerous, but unless you have neglected properly informing yourself, you are not sinful.

The Church teaches right and wrong but never says who is a sinner. Only God knows our hearts. Many homosexual people simply cannot believe that gay sex as such is wrong. So they do what for them is “the best they can do,” though Church teaching says that homogenital acts are wrong. Still, according to the same Church’s teaching on conscience, they do not sin in their hearts nor before God. Then they need not confess what is not sin, and they may participate in the Sacraments of the Church.”

There are 179 roman catholic dioces in the USA. 177 of them have been found guilty in a court of law, or settled out of court, for their priests and even some cases of nuns being found guilty of crimes of pedophilia with children. The current pope even now is trying to avoid the same court findings most recently in Ireland and other european nations. This same pope has chosen to shield the catholic pedophile priests and nuns at the expense of protecting the lives of the children these priests and nuns have destroyed.

When the natural is forbidden, people will do the un-natural. 1 Timothy 4 says that forbidding marriage is a doctrine of demons.

God’s Word is and always will be the final authority, NOT a Higher Critic with a phd. The Holy Spirit guides men and woman into all truth John 16:13. If you think a person needs a Bible college education where doctrine is not taught, but higher criticism of the Bible is taught. You might want to read Acts 4:13. See who the Pharasee’s who had the Tanak memorized said about Peter & John.

And as far as love goes. You say you love God, yet treat His Word as nothing, and in a post lift up the views of men. Repent, and turn to the God of the Bible and His only begotten Son Jesus the Messiah of Israel.

The only time sex is permitted by God is described in 1 Corinthians chapter 7, and God defines that that sexual union is in a marriage between a man and a woman in verse 2. ….. Any other sex, hetero, homo, multiple, beastiality, or any other, IS NOT permitted by God and is sin.

Kathleen,

You’re not too much better than Mr. Sunset, ignoring the point someone asks you to consider and simply returning the conversation to Jesus. That’s not a conversation.

First of all, science is not a “belief system.” It is the most objective method we have for testing alternative explanations for how things work. You’re right, if you admit miracles or demons as supernatural explanations for natural phenomena then the method is useless. And yet, you continue to live a life that relies in nearly every sense–medicine, transportation, communication, nutrition, education–on the success of the method. Can you honestly claim not to “believe”?

I am homosexual…but I just want God to forgive me for the things I have done due to my sexualiy.
I’m in the process of God helping me.
I just wanna be happy, but make God happy first, and foremost!
I may have to live a celibate life…and that kinda worries me
But I apply to God’s will for me!
Anyone who can relate to me?

-Matt R

MATT R.

Please google ….. Charlene Cothran

You will find her testimony, you will find it helpful.

God bless you.

Matt R:

My personal testimony is posted above at April 26, 9:24 pm.

I call into question the wisdom of our popular culture, which told me since my adolescence that I was presumedly “born that way” — I can tell them they are deeply misinformed.

That said, I believe that God proves who he is by the work of His Spirit.

Galatians 4:22-23.

Bob

I just watched your responses to Jennifer Knapp on Larry King Live. With all the glory of god and love of jesus in my heart I can only say that you came across as the biggest twat on earth. Every single question you responded to was based on “the Bible” and never your own opinion…. you just used god as a scapegoat because you don’t have the balls to have your own opinion. Weak pathetic little wanker.

Hello It’s Matt R again.
I just wanna say throughout the past week the Lord really has been speaking to me in different ways. Almost like a hint of showing me what to do, and what I shall do.
I honestly am in the process of God healing me from homosexuality. I’ve learned what a lie it was. I understand that there is no way I could have been born that way. I remember growing up that I always wanted a girlfriend. I dreamed of having kids someday, being a dad, and marrying a beautiful woman. since I was in 1s grade I remember wanting a girlfriend. I might have been feminin in a certain way. But that was just my characterisitic. I grew up with my sister who is 4 years older than me. I was with her 24/7. And she was like my ro-model. I never really hungout with my parents because they were always working. And my brother was ten years older than me. So we never really hungout. I guess society trys to say that if a boy does not play sports, or play with trucks, or is not rough…that your gay! The truth is thats not true. Sure there are labels of different toys that are for girls or for boys. But tha alone does not prove a person sexual orientation. Of course I was with my sister alot. And I might have learned her manerisms. But in all that I still liked girls. All my life I just wanted a girlfriend. all the other guys had one. But no girl would date me cause they thought I was gay I still remember all the taunting, and humility I went through growing up as a boy. Even my own family would tiese me, calling me gay. And I remember I always said “NO I AM NOT”. I didnt undertstand it at all…I was just a kid. I hated myself growing up. I guess all my life I got rejected by girls. Did’nt mean I was gay, but after being called it so many times I guess it stuck in me. And I think thats what happends to alot of gay people. Or maybe once they see that a person of the same sex finds attracton to them they get happy and consider themself that way. I think thats what happend to me. I did’nt fully engage in my sexual identity until I was 15. In 2008. Now I’m 17. And I can say not once have I ever fealt right in it. I always fealt ashamed, guitly, and depressed. Its hard to live my life cause I’m so confused. I guess I feel like I’m to caught up into worldy things. And now that I am realizing what a lie homosexulity is and how I wanna let God change me…I’m scared because I don’t feel like I’m strong enough to let go of the things that temp me into doing the bad stuff. God know how much I wanna let go and turn to him completely. I really want to! Things that hold me behind are music that I like, or friends. Myspace & Facebook where theres alot of evil things tempting you. Or different T.V shows you like. Or stuff that you think is cool, but can really be bad for you. I just wanna be happy. And I’ve realized that since being in the worldy environ ment that I am in, and thinkin that I’m gay…I’ve been really depressed, sad, and alone. And that tells me one thing! That I have not fully surrendered to God. I need to. It’s like I feel like I have my whole life to do it. But NO I need to do it now. I think god is giving me the one chance, Cause maybe his return is closer than we think. And i ust want to fully give my life to him. I also dream of one day being straight. Having Kids, and marrying a beautiful wife. But then I start feeling down cause I’m scared that I will never be manly enough to be with a girl. And then she rejects me too. I hope that we can talk about my past, and she could understand what I went through. I’m just scared that people are gonna still think I am gay after I let God change me. And then I’ll feel like I never changed, or I’m back to where I started No I’m not the most manliest guy in the world. And that scares me if I am wanting to change. I feel so alone also cause my parents are not really there for me. I mean of course they love me. But they don’t really understand what I’m going through. Most parents are there for they’re kids, and love them. I don’t feel that from mine a all My parents work so much. And when I wanna sit down and talk to my mom just about life. She shuts me down. She says she is too tired, or she does’nt wanna hear it. I have so many dreams, and ambitions. I wanna work for disney, and become an imagineer. And also I wanna be an actor, dancer, and musical artist. I love to perfrom, and express myself. And none of that means anything to my parents. They don’t care about what I want to do with my life. they don’t support me. And that makes life even harder. I feel like I will neer get anywhere In my life without support from them. I wanna attend college @ the art institute of north hollywood or orlando florida. But my parents are not included in that at all. My mom could careless what college I wanna go to. She says I you can do whatever you want in life as long as I don’t have to pay for it. And going through that plus my homosexulaity issie is so much on me. And thats what gets me so depressed. One thing is I always have beleived in myself. And “I can do all things through Jesus Christ who strengthens me” I know that God is waiting for me to call on him. He is waiting for me with open arms. His Love is true, and real. And I must turn to him now before its too late. Jus please to you all pray for me. I need it now more than ever. I must be strong at this time in my life. All I want is to do whats best through God. And one day help other young people who are going through what I went through. And teach them that Jesus is the only way. I love you all through Jesus Christ. And God Bless You.

-Matt R

Matt R,

Sounds like you’ve spent your life around a lot of screwed up people. I hope you can get the help you need. In addition to spiritual healing, it sounds like you need a therapist, badly. Any advice you get that therapy is unnecessary and all you need is prayer is akin to telling people they don’t need medicine to cure cancer.

Take the steps toward spiritual and mental health that you need to achieve your dreams.

This is for Matt Roybal
It is around 12:30a.m where I am in Canada and I have been reading these comments for the last coulple of hours, but when I read your heartfelt blog that there was a reason that I was reading these comments and so I thought that this organization may be able to help you (I am assuming that you live in the U.S.) I have gone to the one that is close to me and it has helped (not same sex related). Just know that God is there and He does care.
Ellel Ministries USA
1708 English Acres Drive, Lithia, Florida, 33547, USA
Tel: (813) 737 4848 Fax: (813) 737 9051
Email: info.usa@ellelministries.org

As to Pastor Bob,

I read the shows Transcript (sorry ddidn’t watch it) and think you did a very good job under pressure. It is hard to think of the right words to say when on the spot. God Bless you for your courage to speak.

Praise the LORD,

What a beautiful testimony from MATT R.

Today is the day of salvation people, Repent and Turn to God.

Also google Charlene Cothran, another great testimony.

Pray that people everywhere will turn from sin that so easily besets us.
Praise the LORD.

May God grant us all safety from ourselves first and then others, may He put His desires in our hearts, His truth on our tongues, and may Mercy, Grace, Peace, Joy, Harmony, most of all Love, pull hard at the oars, and may Wisdom steer our vessels as Christ sets the course before the Holy Wind. To all here mentioned, to all here accused , to all here convicted, to all here redeemed, may the outcome be that we all be in the presence of God a good half hour before the adversary even knows we are gone!

Dear Pastor,
I was not able to watch the show but read the transcript. Thank you for standing up for the truth of God’s Word! I am currently living in an area of the world where homosexuality is viewed as a sin and nothing to be desired. It is America’s media that is lulling people to indifference on this issue. Thank you for your courage and continue to speak the truth to those who are perishing!!

Hi Pastor Bob,

I’m a member of Horizon Christian Fellowship, Mt. Alifan, San Diego.

I viewed the YouTube video of the Larry King Live show where Jennifer Knapp, you, and an ex-pastor are on a panel concerning homosexuality and Christianity. I am NOT shocked by seeing this as I am experiencing my own spiritual battle with my atheist nephew fighting several in my family who are Christian. I also see the delusion in our Christian community (e.g., adultery). Today, many Christians (including myself) have been asleep. Whether I blog, email, or facebook, I see how this spiritual battle has grown exponentially. I sense more than ever that the end is drawing near. On the other hand, I’m excited because Jesus is coming soon!

Bottom line, pastor. . . . I want to thank you for STANDING UP to “speak the truth with love.” (Ephesians 4). You have been the voice speaking in the media (a kind of wilderness), representing millions of born-again disciples around the world. I pray for your comfort, encouragement, and spiritual blessings as you endured so much difficulty! Grace and peace to you!

May you sense God’s smile (Numbers 6:25),
Yvonne

Ben SAnd Apr 30th …May you be judged by your own standards… not real biblical…but you may find it to be more of a curse than a blessing!

Matt R. — You are in my thoughts and prayers. Heavenly Father, might your steadfast love and faithfulness be with him.

Proverbs 3:3

As I have journeyed into my humanness, my imperfections, my faults and my glories, I have all the more reason to believe that a God who loves me and accepts me would be all the more eager to love and accept an authentic, loving, prophetic woman like Jennifer Knapp.

Can the Christian community listen to the story of one of their own as an invitation to grace and to healing, to be affected and changed? Or must they (we) always be the ones in power, “ministering”?

http://feminoggles.wordpress.com

Eden,

Christianity is about the human soul dying to self and being reborn with Christ, for those who call upon him as their Savior and Lord.

“Lordship” means that we recognize our transgressions and our desperate need for a savior. Lordship means that we, as sinners, willingly yield to God all authority, control and power in our lives.

Through Christ, God has offered His covenant to indwell the hearts of believers, redeeming and purifying their hearts from sin through his Holy Spirit. The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to expose and convict our hearts regarding our sin, leading us to repent and yield our hearts to God. This is the process of sanctification, it is redemption and turning away from sin. That is the Christian faith.

(1 Cor 6:18-20) 18: Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19: Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20: for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

(Proverbs 6:32) “He who commits adultery lacks sense; he who does it destroys himself.”

“And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.” (Galatians 5:24)

“If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian.” Being a Christian is not about exclusion, separation, discrimination, deciding who may be right or wrong, imposing justice on or even for others. Jesus gave us a gift that cannot be sold or earned. You cannot even attain it by the most passionate devotion to the Word of God. Christians today are troubled by same doubts, fears, bigotry and arrogance that have betrayed and divided the church for thousands of years. Being a good Christian is about the journey, discovering our true selves and taking that journey together. I am praying that Christ will reach into all of your hearts to teach you the real lesson of love and forgiveness. It made me sad to see how Pastor Bod treated Jennifer.

Joseph,

Telling me I’m ignoring the point by focusing on Jesus is analogous to thinking you can have a discussion about the first black president of the United States but leave out Obama. It’s that absurd – to me, anyway.

I agree the scientific method is useless for measuring God, and it’ll only take you so far in measuring His creation. The traditional view that science is objective has been debated. I’m sure you’ve heard of Thomas Kuhn, who believed scientists can never divorce their subjective perspective from their work.

I have no problem with any knowledge God has permitted to be revealed (through the scientific method or any other way), if used for His glory and it’s in agreement with what He’s already revealed in His Word. But we know such an infinitesimal amount! And I wouldn’t say it’s all been an accurate success. Who wants nuclear warheads? Nobody. You mentioned transportation. I hate the automobile and wish paved roads and highways didn’t exist. (I gave my car away last year and recommend reading “Asphalt Nation.”) You also brought up nutrition. I don’t trust in nutritionists when I eat (although that was my major in college before I switched to psychology). Vitamins, minerals and other nutritional substances the human body needs were in our food long before we discovered them. Who created nutrients? So we’re back to God again. Finally, Jesus is my Physician and His Word is my ‘medicine.’

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from God, but science is far from perfect. Your entire existence depends on Jesus Christ, down to your very next breath. Can *you* honestly claim not to believe?

Pastor Bob,

As I saw the interview on Larry King, I remember the scripture in Isaiah that says men will call good things evil and evil things good. I commend you for expressing the Gospel with such love and for being Light in such darkness; surely
God is looking down upon your life and is smiling like a proud Daddy that sees His child’s life fulfilled.

My prayers are with you,
Veronica

Kathleen,

Your analogy is poor. If I’m asking you about your awareness of the fruits of science, and all you can say is “Jesus,” then we have no basis for discussion. The question is not as narrow as, “who is the first black president?”. It is as broad as, “can you recognize how we have come to understand how the world works?” That’s a different issue than you asserting that it works from a particular cause that you favor, but for which you have no objective evidence.

Yes, I’ve heard of Kuhn. Notice that I described science as the most objective method we have. Even Kuhn would not dispute that statement.

I’m not sure what an accurate success is. Science is a way of knowing, not a mechanism for deciding policies. If you would rather not have nuclear warheads, that’s a different issue from what science can have us understand about the nucleus. And if your god didn’t provide the means for your despised nuclear warheads, who do you propose did?

So you must be living in a cave, subsisting on the nuts and berries you’ve gathered and eating tannic leaves to cleanse your parasites, since you wish to portray yourself as having rejected all the benefits of scientific discovery. I sincerely doubt that any of this is the case, as you are typing on a computer and have likely seen a doctor in your lifetime.

Who said science is perfect? It works because it is correctable, unlike the dogmatism that flows on these pages. On the other hand, it has produced results, and we can clearly understand the path from the scientific process to the tangible products.

Yes, I can honestly claim not to believe in fictions that one group of people assert, even while other groups assert competing kinds of fictions, when there is no evidence for any of them nor any method to distinguish which is correct. You say I depend on Jesus, they say I depend on Allah, that other group insists it’s Vishnu, and another group in the past was watching out for Thor. Assertion doesn’t get very far before it runs into someone else’s dogmatic wall.

Enjoy your cave.

“Let the wise listen and add to their learning,
and let the discerning get guidance…
…fools despise wisdom and discipline.”

My point exactly!

Joseph,

My analogy is excellent. Think about it. The whole earth is filled with His glory and all you can do is vainly extol the fruits of “science” as if you owed your life to men and women in lab coats! So what if we know a smattering of facts about how the world works. What’s that without acknowledging and worshipping the Master Builder? It’s incredibly foolish, dangerous and conceited.

Science is part of a belief system at the core of the godless monster, the religion of humanism. You’ve put your irrational, blind faith in human reason and its twin children – science and technology – and rejected God and the supernatural. Your dogma centers on the false assumption that nature is all there is and the only reliable knowledge is gleaned from the scientific method.

Joseph, where were you when He laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements – surely you know. Have you commanded the morning since your days began? Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades or loose the cords of Orion? Where is the way to the dwelling of light, and where is the place of darkness? You know, for you were born then, right? Who has put wisdom in the inward parts or given understanding to the mind? Shall you contend with the Almighty? Will you put Him in the wrong? Will you condemn Him that you may be in the right? You have uttered what you don’t understand, which you don’t know. Your words are without knowledge.

My advice to you is to seek true wisdom and knowledge by studying Jesus. He created you and made claims on your life, saying that unless you believe He is who He said, you will die in your sins. Muhammad, Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva, Siddhārtha Gautama, Confucius, Guru Nanak, Laozi and countless others are false gods and prophets, and they’re dead in their graves. (Of course the Hindu trinity and thousands of other Hindu deities are mythological.) But Jesus is alive and eternal. He had no beginning and has no end. Jesus rose from the dead because death had no power over Him, for He is life.

I love my cave! It’s filled His light. Don’t stay in the dark, come on in! Jesus said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

Actually, that entire paragraph was taken from the book of Job, where God asks Job those questions. Didn’t you recognize it? Get into the Good Book, Joseph!

However, Einstein did believe in a God who created the universe, so he wasn’t an atheist. Although he did not know Him personally, he accepted the historical evidence of Jesus and admired Him.

“There are people who say there is no God but what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views.”

“The fanatical atheists are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who – in their grudge against traditional religion as the ‘opium of the masses’ – cannot hear the music of the spheres.”

“No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life!”

But as someone has asked, does it really matter what Albert Einstein believed? Of course not.

http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2009/02/10/Does-it-Really-Matter-What-Albert-Einstein-Believed.aspx

“Jesus asks each one of us, “Who do you say that I am?” The Creator is looking for those who will come to Him to find the ultimate answers of our existence. Jesus is looking for those who are spiritually hungry and who desire to know who He is. One much greater than Einstein is here…and that is Jesus Christ. The issue is not “who is Einstein and what did he say?” but “who is Jesus Christ and what has He taught?””

Amen to that!

Nice try. My response was to someone else–I didn’t raise Einstein or claim him to be an atheist. I pointed out that he didn’t believe in your religion or your god, and thought that God was a reflection of human weakness and the Bible was childish fiction. Though he did accept the existence of a man with an inspiring message named Jesus. Not sure why you think all that is a win for your side?

Pastor Bob,
I just watched the Larry King Live video last night from the Jennifer Knapp episode. Jesus was with you. You truly shined for Christ. It was incredible. What a discussion! How did you end up doing that in the first place. From one child of a King to another….great job being lead by the Holy Spirit! You truly stood for the truth of the Word.

I’m absolutely convinced evangelical Christians view science as an afront to their belief system. Evolution contradicts Genesis, so it must be a lie. Actually, it’s probably Satan’s work! Science claims the universe is old, but that contradicts the Bible! Must be Satan…
How do you know that the bible is the word of God? Because the bible says so? It’s circular logic at its finest. As far as homosexuality goes, Christians need to keep their opinions to themselves. Publically telling vulnerable people that their sexual orientation is a sin and politically advocating against them is despicable. Ban them from your church “club” if you wish, it’s your club. However, I believe that those who reject science and believe in crap such as a 6000yr old earth should be barred from public service/positions of power. They’re simply mentally unfit. Gays can’t even serve openly in our military. Would Christians allow a gay president? No.
You can call me hateful if you wish, but I would beg to differ. The hurt, devastation, and confusion Matt R has displayed over the past few days proves to me that you don’t care about him as a person. Your telling him to repent till his brain melts or he’s going to HELL. You have no love for him, you just want him to believe and act how YOU BELIEVE & ACT.
Matt R, just be yourself. No “loving god” would want a teenager to agonize about his/her sexuality, let alone care.

I want to thank you for standing up for the truth, the Bible and for Jesus Christ. You did it out of love, it showed. Thank you for being firm on your beliefs of the Bible. You were spot on! You were given a great opportunity to be the salt and light. You did not disappoint. The world needs some more salt! Keep reading your Bible daily.

To Matt R

I found this article and thought you should read it, because of copy right I have to paste it in it’s entirety.

Do Homosexuals Need to be Healed of their Homosexuality?

by Joseph Adam Pearson, Ph.D.

I have written this for those whose guilt has been etched deeply by the official positions of various Christian denominations as well as for those whose pain has been exacerbated by the unkindness shown to them through the actions and reactions of church-goers. It is my hope and prayer that the seeming dilemma between homosexuality and Christianity be resolved and a higher spiritual understanding of sexuality be settled within their minds once and for all, both now and throughout the rest of their earthly days.

The overwhelming majority of people believe that homosexuality is immoral. I do not. I believe that homosexuality is amoral and that homosexuals individually are either moral or immoral.

Within the Bible, we are informed that “God is no respecter of persons.”1 I believe that. And, I believe it applies not only to earthly appearance but also to physical expression, personality, and sexual orientation. I believe that the Creator cares not one jot, iota, or yod about any aspect of our being human except that we try to reflect Him and His loving ways in all that we do. Spiritually speaking, love is the only real thing that can be multiplied and bear fruit.2 I do not believe that any sexuality (heterosexuality or homosexuality) is an expression of God. Rather, I believe that sexuality is, at worst, a parody of — or, at best, a parable of — the creative powers of the Lord God Almighty and the communion His saints have with one another in their at-one-ment with Him.

1 Acts 10:34 (See also: 2 Samuel 14:14, 2 Chronicles 19:7, Romans 2:11, Ephesians 6:9, and 1 Peter 1:17.) 2 Read Genesis 1:28 and Mark 12:28-31.

Some time back, while pondering the idea that I had a spiritual message to convey, this malingering thought would press to the forefront of my consciousness: “Who will believe what you have to say? You are a homosexual.” I was troubled, because, although I felt comfortable with my sexuality, I felt most others would be uncomfortable with it (to put it mildly). I felt sure that any good that I might try to do would be prefaced by: “Dr. Pearson, an acknowledged homosexual …” I knew people would erroneously use what I was to try to define who I was, and am. I remember mentally working out arguments to justify and vindicate my homosexuality should I ever come to public or private trial concerning it until — one day after earnestly praying to the Lord for an answer to give my then-imagined, but perhaps now-real, detractors — I inwardly heard (writing while hearing) these words from the Holy Spirit:

“If I am cursed, then I am joined to my Master, who was cursed of all men. In this, then, do I rejoice that I am cursed of men, for in that curse I receive the blessing of God wherewith I am received into the body of Christ: rejected by man but accepted by God, and delivered by Him from the hand of my own iniquity and sin.”

Yes, it’s true, the Lord God Almighty answered my prayer! Not only that, but the answer swept over and settled in my soul. I understood. I heard. It spoke to me as no biological, psychological or sociological argument could. Later, in Bible study, I came to better understand the scriptural foundation for the answer I received:

In his letter to the Corinthians in Galatia, St. Paul wrote: “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, „Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree.‟”3 Paul was referring to the Old Testament passage that states: “He 3 Galatians 3:13 that is hanged is cursed of God.”4 While we all know that Jesus was not hanged in the now-common sense of the word — and certainly was not lifted up to the limb of a sycamore tree — he was hanged in the sense that the ancients understood the word, that is, “hanged up” for all to see. You see, hanging was viewed primarily as a warning to potential wrongdoers. In many cases, bodies were hung up after execution rather than for execution. Both the Apostles Paul and Peter independently affirm their acceptance of that usage through their allusions to the hanging of Christ.5 In other words, Jesus also — which is to say, like homosexuals (as many traditionalists have come to interpret Scripture) — had been cursed by the letter of Mosaic law. Thus, as I now understand it, what the Lord‟s Holy Spirit said to me is this:

4 Deuteronomy 21:23 5 With regard to Paul, see Acts 13:39; and, concerning Peter, see Acts 5:30, Acts 10:39, and 1 Peter 2:24.

In that Christ Jesus, God’s Chosen, was made a mock for us that we might be reconciled to the Creator, and that His crucifixion won us pardon (if we so believe), so then does God’s mercy extend to all souls in dust who feel the scorn of the lion (that is, the Devil) through the unkindness of humankind. The Creator will not turn His love away from any who suffer — even if they suffer only a fraction of the passion of His firstborn — since they remind Him of His Son. In other words, in the Creator’s sight all reviled are joined to the one who suffered the ultimate rejection.

On a number of occasions, I have heard the following statement uttered by so-called Christian fundamentalists to combat the possible social acceptance of homosexuality: “God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.” The ignorance of that statement astounds me both as a Christian and as a biologist. Because it is simplistic and reductionist, the statement fails to take into consideration the multivariate nature of this world. It fails to take into consideration that there might be a third kind or gender, not neuter but “gay.” Many unusual phenomena related to sexual identity occur within the natural world. For example: 1) Certain avians and fish undergo spontaneous sex reversals and are even capable of reproduction in their newfound gender. 2) Various unfertilized insect eggs develop into males. 3) The females of specific flying insects possess “XY” sex chromosomes and the males possess “XX” (even some human anomalies exist in which anatomic females have “XY” chromosomes and anatomic males have “XX” chromosomes). 4) An all-female species of fish has been discovered (the Amazon molly), whose eggs develop through parthenogenesis (stimulation of ova without the customary fusion of male and female cells). And, most importantly, 5) a whole range of human intersex states exist that fit on a continuum between normal male and female anatomical sex (normal is used here in the sense of “population-normed,” or “that which occurs most frequently”).

The issue of human sex identity is a complex one. There are many legitimate questions regarding the genetic (or, chromosomal) status, phenotypic (or, anatomical) status, gender identification (or, psychological) status, and society-assigned (or, sociological) status of sex identity. In humans, sex identity may be determined by chromosome composition (46,XX for female and 46,XY for male). However, genetic testing is not always the best indicator of sex identity. Why? There are a fair number of individuals who fall into intersex categories. For instance: 1) those with abnormal chromosome composition (including 47,XXY; 45,X; and, 45,X/46,XY mosaics); 2) genetic males who differentiate into anatomical females due to androgen inaction or insensitivity; and, 3) genetic females who differentiate into anatomical males from exposure to abnormally high amounts of androgens either in utero from their mothers‟ hyperactive adrenal glands or post partum from their own hyperactive adrenal glands.

Since as many as 0.1% of the population fall into intersex status categories,6 there may be more than 6,000,000 people on earth whose sexual identities are in question using one basis for classification or another. Since these people are not real Adams or real Eves (the definition of “real” here left in question), are we to assume that intersex individuals were not created by God? No. We should never use the presence, absence, or size of external genitalia; numbers and kinds of chromosomes; sex hormone blood levels; or muscle dimensions to classify real men and real women.

6 Jean D. Wilson, M.D., 1992, “Sex Testing in International Athletics,” Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 267, No. 6, page 853.

Although sex identity is not equivocal with sexual orientation, the point I am trying to make is that not all things are as black and white as some Christian fundamentalists would like them to be. Today, within the biological community there is legitimate debate about the biological basis of homosexuality in the light of recent scientific work that links brain morphology and sexual preference as well as research on identical and fraternal twins that demonstrates statistical significance in favor of a genetic contribution to sexual orientation. Thus, it is more than likely that some seemingly unnatural and sinful behaviors (“unnatural” and “sinful” from the standpoint of so-called Christian Fundamentalism) are part of nature. Then, are we to assume that God makes only some people and not others? Or, are we to assume that some Christians are ignorant of truth? To be sure, it is somewhat queer to me that so many have abandoned the foundational Christian principle of love in order to judge and condemn others about whom they know so little. The only way that Christian Fundamentalism proves that some people are not really of God is through the hatred it has engendered.

Yes, there was a time when no blemished thing could come before the Lord, as indicated by the following passage from the Bible: “He that is wounded in the stones [testicles] or has his private member [penis] cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord.”7

7 Deuteronomy 23:1 (See also Leviticus 21:16-20.) 8 Read Hebrews, especially Chapters 9 and 10 9 Deuteronomy 9:24 10 Acts 8:26-39

However, during Old Covenant (Old Testament) times, the Lord God Almighty was trying to establish within the hearts and minds of some very primitive people that He is sovereign and that He is worthy of perfect sacrifice (of which Christ Jesus was to become, and remain, the only embodiment), much the same as He established His tabernacle and its appointments as a figure of things in heaven.8 Remember, according to the Old Testament, the people of that day were “sticknecked” and “rebellious,” ungrateful for the things that the Lord was doing for them, and gross with regard to spiritual understanding. Concerning them, even Moses had this to say: “„Ye have been rebellious against the Lord from the [first] day that I knew you.‟”9 Thus, in order to help them subdue an unyielding spirit, they were subjected to various rules, regulations, and ordinances by the Lord.

In the Book of Acts, it is recorded that St. Philip was directed by an Angel of the Lord, as well as by God’s Holy Spirit, to minister the gospel to an Ethiopian eunuch so that he could accept Jesus as the Messiah.10 If during the early days of the New Testament, a eunuch (who would have been prohibited from approaching the Lord by adhering to the letter of Mosaic law) could receive salvation, then surely during these latter days homosexuals can be saved (that is, received by Christ into His Kingdom). To be sure, homosexuals do not need to be delivered from their homosexuality, unless of course they are indulging in a hedonistic and sinful lifestyle (just as any heterosexual in bondage to lust of the flesh needs to be delivered

from that appetite). Indeed, it is spiritually and emotionally unhealthy for anyone to view others as objects for self-gratification.

St. Luke wrote, “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the Kingdom of God is preached, and everyone presses into it.”11 St. John wrote, “For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”12 And, St. Paul wrote: 1) “You are not under the law, but under grace;” 2) “I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteems one thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean;” 3) “The letter [of the law] kills, but the spirit [of love] gives life;” and, 4) “For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: „Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.‟”13 Keep in mind that it was those who were legalistically-minded (that is, strict adherents to the letter of Mosaic law) who were offended by Jesus‟ deeds and eventually saw to it that he was condemned to death. Also, those who call themselves Christian should remember that, at one time, even the Gentiles were not part of God‟s chosen.14

11 Luke 16:16 12 John 1:17 13 Romans 6:14 & 14:14; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Galatians 5:14 14 Romans, Chapter 9 15 Acts 10:28 16 Romans 2:1

Why can’t more believers in Christ be like St. Peter, who said, “God has showed me that I should not call any man „common‟ or „unclean.‟”15 No one is permitted by the Lord God to judge or condemn another: “You are not pardoned, O man, whoever you are that judges: for wherein you judge another, you condemn yourself.”16 People who judge or condemn others are self-righteous. If you are a biblical Christian, please answer the following question: What does God think of self-righteousness?

I am saddened that, for many Christians, the issue of AIDS has been turned into an issue of homosexuality. Why am I saddened? I think homosexuality is one area in which the organized Christian Church has given sanction to anti-Christian attitudes of condemnation and behaviors that are offensive to Christ, all of which turn many away from where they might be looking during their final days. The spirit of condemnation now operates through many who profess that Jesus is their Savior. It runs rampant through their hearts and minds and souls. For some strange reason, it “sets right” with many Christians — at least many that I have heard and seen — to take such a stand. Once, when visiting a self-identified “Spirit-filled” church, I heard the pastor make a joke about homosexuals during his sermon. It received a good laugh from the congregants; however, it made me feel badly for those homosexuals who may have been in the congregation and who had already suffered rejection by many and were seeking the Lord, only to be rejected (that is, made fun of) by one of His “servants.” Brothers and sisters, believe me, whenever cruelty raises its ugly head, you can be sure that whoever raises it is not testifying of Jesus‟ love and power to save.

Like King David — who chose to have retribution meted out by pestilence rather than by the hand of man17 — I think that the Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) should be feared less than men. Viruses come nowhere near the power of evil that can be generated through human beings who have given themselves over to malice, malevolence, and condemnation. Certainly, humans are responsible for more damage and suffering than any infectious agent.

17 2 Samuel 24:13-15

Yes, there are those Christians who would agree that homosexuals may be “saved” but only on the condition that they repent and change their ways (that is, not act on their sexual orientation). From my vantage point, it is plain that such as these believe corporeal flesh to be the true reflection and likeness of God as well as believe that the carnal nature, which animates that flesh, to be His Nature, — ideas that I see as entirely incongruous and erroneous. Really, there is little I can say to clarify my views on homosexuality for them, because, for as long as they hold to such thinking, their understanding of sexuality (among other things) will remain earthbound: they will not be able to grasp God’s indifference to sexual orientation. (Do not misinterpret here that I am saying that the Lord is indifferent to human behavior.) For those who are genuinely struggling to reconcile what they feel inside is true concerning homosexuality with the views of the Christianity they love so much (such views seemingly at variance with those feelings), I need to add this: When I pretended that I was a heterosexual so others might accept me, I was in effect rejecting God because I was living a lie. It was not until I became honest with myself and others that I was able to come to the real truth, which is to say, to the reality of Christ. That is not to say that I believe homosexuals have a license to licentiousness. Quite to the contrary, no. Unless one has been called to celibacy, I believe in the unadulterated sharing of the life and love of the Lord within the sanctity of a monogamous relationship. I believe that one of the highest relationships that can be achieved among souls within this earthly flesh is the one attained between two faithful helpmates who put God first and each other second. My mate and I have been with each other for 33 years (as of 2009) and neither one of us has been unfaithful to the other. This is one of the “secrets” to the longevity of our relationship.

What determines whether an individual is homosexual or heterosexual, I do not know. As a biologist, I believe that the cause may be different for different individuals. Perhaps there are some cases that are environmentally-caused, some emotionally-caused, others genetically- and/or hormonally-caused, and still others caused by a combination of any or all of those factors. However, with some psychotherapeutic exceptions, I don’t think the cause should really matter. What I do think should matter is that no one become enslaved to sexuality or to fears concerning it. I even think that the so-called “curse” of homosexuality can be turned into a blessing for those homosexuals who do not become involved in a frenetic escape from it in sexual addiction or in unhealthy repression of their own homosexual feelings. How? Through the challenge it presents. To perceive that one does not fit into an accepted mold or pattern can help lead one to the conclusion that people who are spiritually-minded are really strangers, foreigners, and pilgrims in this world. Such recognition is necessary, I think, before we can be fully returned to a heavenly home, where God expresses Himself through us without measure. With adversity, rejection, and suffering often comes enlightenment and obedience to God; however, generally speaking, the gifts of adversity, rejection, and suffering are not often gratefully received by souls in dust nor even viewed as spiritual gifts. (I am not saying here that we should abrogate our responsibility to be active politically, demonstrate publicly, and stand up for our rights in outrageous ways.)

To those Christians who grieve because of how they perceive their own homosexuality or the homosexuality of someone they truly love, I would like to call their attention to something else St. Paul wrote: “God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; and base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yes, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in His Presence.”18

18 1 Corinthians 1:27-29

I challenge them to evaluate St. Paul’s word of wisdom in the context of homosexuality and today’s world. Also, to evaluate the relationship of this world to the sphere in which God operates and His true Shekinah-glory is manifested. The Lord God Almighty does not care that narrow-minded heterosexuals playing religion might be offended if He accepts homosexuals into His Kingdom. In fact, God often chooses to confound people who think they have all of the answers. “No flesh should glory” also means that neither heterosexuals nor homosexuals should think that one sexual orientation is better than the other: Though it is perfectly alright to celebrate our sexuality, no human being should revel in animal instincts.

Now, some of the things that the Apostle Paul has written must be understood in terms of their historical and cultural contexts. For example, that which concerns a woman’s long hair being “a glory to her,” or that which commands women to “keep silence in the churches.”19 Such is not the case in his absolutism about God choosing to exalt things that are despised by men. It reminds me of God saying to Moses: “I WILL BE GRACIOUS TO WHOM I WILL BE GRACIOUS, AND WILL BESTOW MERCY UPON WHOM I WILL BESTOW MERCY.”20 It reminds me of this praise that Nebuchadnezzar offered God: “And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and He does according to His Will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and no one can stay His hand, or say unto Him, „What doest Thou?‟”21 It reminds me of Christ Jesus‟ saying to Peter concerning that Apostle’s speculation about what would happen to “John the beloved” (the man that Jesus loved): “„If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to you?‟”22 It reminds me of the heavenly voice that spoke to Peter and said, “„What God has cleansed, call not unclean.‟”23 Finally, it reminds me of the Lord’s response to Paul

19 1 Corinthians 11:15 & 14:35 20 Exodus 33:19 21 Daniel 4:35 22 John 21:22 23 Acts 10:15

when sought by that man to remove a thorn from his flesh: “„My grace is sufficient for you: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.‟”24 If the Lord God Almighty has chosen to extend His dispensation to homosexuals (and I believe He has), then who are mere mortals to tell Him that He cannot or that He should not? The Lord chooses to whom He is gracious and merciful (thank goodness mankind does not choose, for no one ever would have become saved). Who are any of us to question the authority or the sovereignty of the Lord God Almighty. What audacity! How full of self-pride and willfulness that is! To my friends who happen to be homosexual, I write this: Because the world is afraid of us (it always fears what it does not understand), it has tried to suppress the natural development of our affections and emotions. And, since it has tried to repress the healthy expression of our sexual orientation as well as suppress knowledge of our existence, many of us — without positive role models of any kind — were consigned by society to lead lives in sordid, backroom-type, sinful activities. Because our personalities were fragmented, we were eaten up from the inside out by unhealthy sexual desires. However, it is time for us to break from the bondage of such a mental, emotional, and spiritual miasma. We need to resist the unhealthiness and sinfulness engendered by prevailing attitudes and actions propelled by Satan’s spirit of self-righteousness and condemnation. We need to take charge of our lives. We need to understand that our Creator loves us and that He couldn’t care less about our sexual orientation (unless we have not come to terms with it).

24 2 Corinthians 12:9

What are the responsibilities of homosexuals? They are the same as heterosexuals. In Romans we read, “I beseech you, therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.”25 Thus, we should accept our rejection by mankind as well as our acceptance by God, taking time to be holy all the while. (Again, this is not to say that we should be passive in our struggle for justice and equality.) When they feel especially sad and lonely, shouldn’t homosexuals be able to turn to the one who knew the ultimate rejection, Christ Jesus, that their burdens might be shared? Cannot Christians who happen to be homosexual have the same hope as Christians who happen to be heterosexual? Are homosexuals covered by God’s grace? Yes, yes, and yes. Believe me, daily I prove God’s saving grace and I witness of it to you.

25 Romans 12:1 See also 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 and 6:18-20. 26 Apart from the pejorative slang sense , faggots are “embers.”

If you happen to be heterosexual, perhaps none of what I have written here makes sense to you. That’s all right. Just remember to keep your judgments to yourself, to refrain from unkindness to me and others like me, and to try and not be too surprised when you meet many of us in heaven. And, if the idea of “faggots”26 burning brightly for God is repugnant to you, then perhaps you are not yet fit for the Kingdom of God. For this reason, I pray that you permit our Lord to change you.

Joseph,

Nice try? I wasn’t trying anything, I was only expanding on his thoughts. A win for my side? Hardly. Jesus won on the cross when He said, “It is finished.” It’s just intersting that it pissed him off that atheists claim him as one of their own. It was a huge loss for him though. He believed in God all right but refused to receive Him because he couldn’t wrap his head around why God allows evil. The guy fits Romans 1 perfectly. For God’s invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, were clearly perceived by Einstein in the things that have been made, and so he was without excuse, for although he knew God through His creation, he didn’t honor him as God or give thanks to Him, but became futile in his thinking and his foolish heart was darkened.

“Claiming to be wise, they became fools…” (Romans 1:22)

Don’t go down the same dead-end street, Joseph. Jesus said, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

I watched your interview with Larry and Jennifer. I think you did a wonderful job at trying to speak the Gospel. I was so saddened when they both interrupted you and would not let you speak. You were very loving and held your temper. I am glad God used you to speak his truth. You did very well. I was also greatly disappointed in the other gentleman who came on and justified homosexuality, when he too is wearing the name of Christ. I felt that neither he or Jennifer realized that as a body of believers we are called to help other believers out of sin, no matter what church you belong to.

I hope you were not discouraged by them interrupting you. God let you say what you needed to say. There is nothing else you can do other than continue to pray for her. Sometimes you just have to let them go. The Holy Spirit will convict her if it is necessary.

I love you and am praying for you. I praise God for using you as a vessel and encouraging me.

I saw this comment somewhere else and thought it was appropriate for this discussion.

Why do Fundamentalists sometimes quote the Bible and say, “God said it, I believe it that settles it.” They assume that the meaning and interpretation of the Bible is simple but ignore the historical aspect of the Bible and its interpretation.

Apart from a few passages, such as the Ten Commandments, the Bible does not claim to be dictated by God. The Bible portrays the complex interaction between God and humans over long periods of time. The interaction includes presence and absence, revelation and mystery on the part of God. It includes human seeking, groping, and grasping for God along with human resistance, dullness, and stubborn refusal to accept God’s will. It includes a process of learning and growth, punctuated by periods of regression.

The writers of the Bible never tell us to turn off our brains. Instead they challenge us to think through the implications of faith in an unseen God who sides with slaves, refugees, immigrants, the poor, and the crucified.

Why are comments being removed Pastor Bob even when they are not offensive?

Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait.
The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.

The differences are likely to have been forged in the womb or in early infancy, says Ivanka Savic, who conducted the study at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden.

“This is the most robust measure so far of cerebral differences between homosexual and heterosexual subjects,” she says.
Previous studies have also shown differences in brain architecture and activity between gay and straight people, but most relied on people’s responses to sexuality driven cues that could have been learned, such as rating the attractiveness of male or female faces.
“This study demonstrates that homosexuals of both sexes show strong cross-sex shifts in brain symmetry,” says Qazi Rahman, a leading researcher on sexual orientation at Queen Mary college, University of London, UK.

“The connectivity differences reported in the amygdala are striking.”

Giovanna, are they no longer accepting comments?

We watched the interview and were greatly saddened by Jennifer’s and Ted Haggard’s response. There was very little scriptural support for their assertions. We will continue to pray for them. Pastor Bob, thank you for taking a stand for the truth!

I’m sure there are very many blogs where you could interact in lively conversation on that equally sensitive topic, but since this blog was started to address the issue of homosexuality, I don’t think it would be productive to head down that rabbit trail too. One harmful behavior can’t be justified by comparing it to any equally harmful behavior however anyone wants to spin it. In fact, it could very well dilute the argument and conversation more.

If you think the UN has your best interest in mind then that tells me something more about you. Furthermore, I don’t think Christians are any more lazy and greedy than any other group of people. Be careful with your generalizations, it only serves to discredit the point you want to make.

Check this out…

Here is an fascinating topic that might be of advantage to you….

Many sources mention 2.1 billion Christians in the world (about one third of the total population of the planet) then why aren’t they having a greater impact on this world than they are?

The most serious spiritual problem in the country today is reckless and untrammeled greed. Greed caused the disgraceful corporate scandals that fill our newspapers. Greed is responsible for crooked cops and crooked politicians. Greed causes the constant efforts to destroy unions that protect basic worker rights.

I thought this commentary was appropriate to make my point.

Greed has produced rash tax cuts that have given money to the rich and in effect taken it away from the poor. Greed has led to the immigration policy in which hundreds of poor men and women die every year as they struggle across the desert for the jobs that el norte promises them. Greed accounts for the efforts to take profitability out of the pensions and health insurance of working men and women. Greed is responsible for the fact that so many Americans have no health insurance and the fact that the recent reform of Medicare was a fraud. Greed causes newspapers to overestimate their circulation.

Greed is responsible for the obscene salaries of CEOs. In the ’90s the ratio of CEO compensation to average workers’ compensation was 250 to 1, meaning that the boss earned on his first day of work during a year as much as the worker did in a whole year. In European countries the ratio is closer to 100 to 1. Recent estimates put the current ratio at 500 to 1 — the boss makes as much before lunch as the worker does all year. Greed is the cause of the high wages paid to the bosses even if the company is failing.

Greed is responsible for the endless stress and ruthless competition of the workplace and the strains and tensions of professional class marriages. Greed (in this instance another name for relentless ambition) explains much of the cheating on college campuses. Greed is responsible for outsourcing, which is incapable of comprehending that the employees who lose their jobs are also the consumers who sustain the economy. Greed generates the reckless ventures that in part caused the bubble of the late ’90s. Greed causes expensive wars that shatter the budget. Greed is the reason that only the wealthy are benefitting so far from the economic upturn that is allegedly happening. Greed drives loan sharks. Greed is responsible for the success of big box stores that tax the poor with low wages to provide bargains for affluent suburban shoppers. Greed is the reason poor white Appalachians, poor African Americans and poor Native Americans must fight the wars that the wealthy start. Jessica Lynch joined the Army so she could go to college. Her Native American roommate, killed in action, joined so, single mother that she was, she could support her children. Greed is the reason why the country is being run by those whom the president has described, however inelegantly, as the ”haves and the have mores.”

No one said during the bizarre deification of President Reagan that he taught us that greed is good and that we should feel good about our greedy country. Greed is the reason that the country is being run by the insurance, pharmaceutical, weapons and petroleum industries. Greed causes worldwide sex slavery of women and children.

Greed drives the murders of the narcotics world. Greed is responsible for the exploitations of teen sports stars by colleges and for the mess in the pro sports world. It is also the cause of the use of performance drugs by young athletes. Greed is responsible for the bad advice lawyers gave the Church years ago to beat victims of sexual abuse into the ground. It is behind the scam artists who steal from the elderly.

Greed may have been a more serious problem for Americans, say, in the era of the robber barons. But the Garys and the Morgans and the Carnegies were a small bunch of men. Now their greed has seeped down to a much larger segment of the population.

The Catholic Church speaks of four sins that cry to heaven for vengeance. Two are cheating workers out of wages and exploiting widows and children. Both happen every day in our greedy country.

Ambition is not evil within limits. The struggle for success is not bad within limits. Hard work and fair rewards are good within limits. It is not good to take from the poor and give to the rich, and that’s exactly what this country is doing today.

Don’t let anyone tell you that lust is the most deadly of the deadly sins.

thanks for not posting my comment for no apparent reason.

Thank you Pastor Bob for speaking the Truth on Larry King Live, and standing against the deceit so many are falling to.

So have you read this yet Bob?

“Preached Sunday, February 20, 2000, at the Des Moines United Methodist Church, Des Moines, Washington

Religion has never been known as a force at the cutting edge of doing new things. Avant garde has not been a phrase used to describe the church throughout history. Rather, the church is usually perceived as a conserving force, seeking to retain the traditional values which have come from the past.

This is shown in the respect and honor we give the Holy Bible, a document written several millennia ago. It is seen in the ancient customs of Orthodox Christians, from time honored liturgies to the unchanging clerical vestments of its clergy. Islam thrives on ancient practices such as daily prayers of its people, as five times each day they face toward Mecca. Thousand-year-old statues of the Buddha remain powerful symbols for Buddhists. In Christianity, ancient creeds are recited from week to week in churches around the world.

All of this is good–there is truth and value at the center of religious faith which is unchanging and ought to be honored and revered. John Wesley recognized this in placing tradition as one of four guidelines for us, along with scripture, experience and reason.

But our scripture lesson for today reminds us that God is ever ready to do a new thing. It further reminds us that the God we worship is not a static God, capable only of speaking to us from two, three or four thousand years ago. Rather, God is living, alive in this moment, revealing new truth to us here, now, in this year of our Lord 2000.

God is revealing new truth in many areas of life. One which is increasingly clear is that He is speaking to us in the issue of homosexuality.

I am aware that many people are uncomfortable even mentioning this matter and wish it would just go away. I am aware of that, because I have felt exactly the same way.

I am also aware that it is not the most important issue The United Methodist Church faces. The most important issue is to make disciples, to share the love of God in a world that is hurting. But homosexuality is the most volatile and potentially divisive issue we face, and I believe that God is about to do a new thing among us.

The new thing that God is doing in our midst right now is to show us that homosexuality is not simply an act or acts of willful disobedience to God’s law and commandments, but it is a state of being. It is an identity that God has given to some of His children. It is who they are.

How does this assertion–this new thing–stand up against John Wesley’s four tests of Christian truth: scripture, tradition, experience and reason?

SCRIPTURE: Twice in the Book of Leviticus and once in the Book of Romans are condemnations of homosexual activity. One in Leviticus indicates that death is the penalty for such acts. In truth, there are instances of homosexual acts which should be condemned, even as there are instances of heterosexual acts which should be condemned. I do not doubt that the writer of Leviticus and that St. Paul had good reason to write as they did.

But when we turn to the scripture, we need to turn to the whole of the scripture. When we do that, the central and overwhelming message is God’s inclusive love for all of humankind.

Scholars of all opinions have agreed that one verse of scripture is truly the “gospel in a nutshell”– the beloved John 3:16: “God so loved the world that he gave his only Son that everyone who believes in him may not perish but have eternal life (NRSV).”

The overwhelming love of God in Christ sweeps some specific prohibitions away, even though they are in the Bible. Do you believe that? Anyone here divorced? Jesus ruled out almost all divorce. Anyone here a woman? Well, Paul didn’t rule you out, but he ruled you out of speaking in church. Anybody here eat pork? Specifically prohibited!

Look, the sovereign message of the Bible is God’s redeeming, all-powerful love that overrides all else, and places specific prohibitions in the context of the time and place and situation in which they were written.

TRADITION: We remember Tevya in Fiddler on the Roof singing, “Tradition.” Regarding homosexuality, it is not so much that tradition has been actively against it, but that tradition has been actively covering it up. The tradition is that it is a taboo subject–shrouded in mystery–unspeakable–unmentionable–a subject to be crammed down into the nether regions of our consciousness and forgotten. As a consequence, our real tradition is ignorance. So to that extent, church tradition doesn’t help much.

In another way, however, we have a long tradition of change. Some 150 years ago, in many of our churches, Methodists believed slavery was scriptural and ordained by God. Until 1920, The Methodist Church in its Discipline prohibited (or tried to prohibit) “dancing, theater-going, and card-playing.” But we have a long, long tradition of finally sorting out what is truly important over what is either incorrect or only marginally important. In the long run, we have always been able to discern when God is doing a new thing in our midst. This capacity to change is among the noblest of our traditions.

EXPERIENCE: Of all the 4 tests of Christian truth, experience is in some ways the deepest and most far-reaching. It is the thing that can move us when nothing else can.

John Wesley was an academic, legalistic, guilt-ridden and slightly repulsive Anglican priest before he experienced the love of God in his heart of hearts–before his heart, as he wrote, was “strangely warmed.” It turned his life around. It made the difference between his ending up a forgotten cleric of the Church of England and what he is–a man remembered, respected and followed by millions, one of the great spiritual fathers of the human race.

What is the role of experience in the issue we speak of today? It is the personal encounter with the anguish, the pain, the hurt, the suffering, the despair which harsh and judgmental attitudes can have on persons of homosexual orientation.

How does this encounter come about? One way is when parents realize that their child is a person of homosexual orientation. They share intensely and intimately in the struggle, perhaps the denial, often the anguish, but ultimately the acceptance of the child whom they bore and whom they love. It is little wonder that such parents gather together with others in groups such as PFLAG (Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) to bring about understanding and change. For they have experienced first-hand some of the deep, deep hurt that accompanies this issue in our church and in our society.

In my own case, based on my limited understanding, I went along with the prevailing view, although never including any hatred. I said to myself, “After all, God created men and women different, complementary to one another physically and perhaps emotionally. From my viewpoint as a heterosexual person, heterosexuality must be what God expects of all His creation.” It was just common sense to me.

I was wrong. It was experience that showed me I was wrong.

Actually, several experiences were at work. A year ago, when Bishop Joseph Sprague of Illinois asked me to come and preside over a church trial, experience made its compelling points with me. The Reverend Gregory Dell was pastor of the Broadway United Methodist Church in Chicago, a congregation made up of about 40% gay and lesbian persons, situated in a community of similar makeup. Under the law of our denomination, Reverend Dell was charged with “disobedience to the order and discipline of The United Methodist Church,” for conducting a service of holy union for two members of his congregation, two gay men.

These two men were active in their church as ushers, finance committee members, and regular participants. They had been living as partners for several years, but had been having trouble in their relationship. They came seeking spiritual counsel from their pastor, and wanted to have some kind of service of prayer or blessing of their commitment. They felt it would strengthen them and make them better partners. Reverend Dell agreed to conduct a small, informal service, which took place in September of 1998.

The facts of the case were never contested. For conducting this service, the trial court found him guilty and suspended him from the exercise of ministry. Ecclesiastically speaking, the decision was correct. As I understand the Spirit of God, it was wrong.

For two long days I watched this trial of a dedicated, energetic, compassionate, caring and able minister, with 30 years of loyal service to our church. This experience, along with other experiences I am sure, caused me to change my mind. I began to see the new thing God is doing.

REASON: Reason cuts both ways. For a long time, reason told me that God’s creation of male and female ruled out anything but heterosexuality. But reason, enriched by experience, actually told me otherwise.

I have often taken issue with arguments which equated prejudice against homosexuality with prejudice against race. I took issue because race was clearly a condition one was born with, while homosexuality involved behavior which is subject to human will. Having said that, is it reasonable to believe that God would create some with an orientation toward the same gender, put within them the same strong drive of sexuality which is present in heterosexual persons, and then decree that such a drive is to be absolutely repressed and denied? This not only defies reason, but is cruel, unfeeling and arbitrary–qualities foreign to God as we know Him in Jesus Christ. Reason supports a belief that God is in the process of doing a new thing.

At the trial of Gregory Dell, the two men who were the participants in the service of union appeared as witnesses. On the stand, in response to questions, one man told about his father, a pastor in the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church, one of the most conservative denominations in America. He asked his father to conduct the holy union service. The father regretfully declined, on the basis of his denomination’s position, yet he attended the service. Afterwards, at the reception, the father led in a public prayer of blessing for his son and his partner.

Whatever our beliefs about homosexuality, can we as Christians do any less than to affirm the committed relationships of our sisters and brothers in Christ?

In a few weeks 992 delegates will gather in Cleveland for the General Conference, marking 216 years of our church’s life. These are good people, dedicated United Methodist Christians earnestly seeking God’s will for our church. They have been elected by their fellow clergy and laity from all over the world and entrusted with a heavy responsibility. They will have differing perspectives on this and many issues facing them.

It is impossible to predict what actions they may take, because the Spirit moves at its own pace– “the wind bloweth where it listeth (John 3:8).” But I believe that if the delegates are listening carefully, above the competing pressures of this group and that, they will hear the still, small voice whisper, “I am doing a new thing,” and they will respond faithfully.

Amen. “

Pastor Bob,
I saw you on LKL and appreciate you being part of that heated discussion in order to stand up for the truth of God’s Word. I saw how you approached the situation in humility and clearly stated that it was God’s opinion from the Bible that you were expressing, not your own. I am an alum of The Master’s College, so I have sat under the teaching of Dr. John MacArthur as well as like-minded professors. Your teaching seems to be in the same vein as theirs. I am aware that Dr. MacArthur has also appeared on LKL to stand for the truth of God’s Word when similar issues were being discussed. Thank you for being faithful in this way.

Preached Sunday, February 20, 2000, at the Des Moines United Methodist Church, Des Moines, Washington

Text: “I am about to do a new thing.” –Isaiah 43:19

Religion has never been known as a force at the cutting edge of doing new things. Avant garde has not been a phrase used to describe the church throughout history. Rather, the church is usually perceived as a conserving force, seeking to retain the traditional values which have come from the past.

This is shown in the respect and honor we give the Holy Bible, a document written several millennia ago. It is seen in the ancient customs of Orthodox Christians, from time honored liturgies to the unchanging clerical vestments of its clergy. Islam thrives on ancient practices such as daily prayers of its people, as five times each day they face toward Mecca. Thousand-year-old statues of the Buddha remain powerful symbols for Buddhists. In Christianity, ancient creeds are recited from week to week in churches around the world.

All of this is good–there is truth and value at the center of religious faith which is unchanging and ought to be honored and revered. John Wesley recognized this in placing tradition as one of four guidelines for us, along with scripture, experience and reason.

But our scripture lesson for today reminds us that God is ever ready to do a new thing. It further reminds us that the God we worship is not a static God, capable only of speaking to us from two, three or four thousand years ago. Rather, God is living, alive in this moment, revealing new truth to us here, now, in this year of our Lord 2000.

God is revealing new truth in many areas of life. One which is increasingly clear is that He is speaking to us in the issue of homosexuality.

I am aware that many people are uncomfortable even mentioning this matter and wish it would just go away. I am aware of that, because I have felt exactly the same way.

I am also aware that it is not the most important issue The United Methodist Church faces. The most important issue is to make disciples, to share the love of God in a world that is hurting. But homosexuality is the most volatile and potentially divisive issue we face, and I believe that God is about to do a new thing among us.

The new thing that God is doing in our midst right now is to show us that homosexuality is not simply an act or acts of willful disobedience to God’s law and commandments, but it is a state of being. It is an identity that God has given to some of His children. It is who they are.

How does this assertion–this new thing–stand up against John Wesley’s four tests of Christian truth: scripture, tradition, experience and reason?

SCRIPTURE: Twice in the Book of Leviticus and once in the Book of Romans are condemnations of homosexual activity. One in Leviticus indicates that death is the penalty for such acts. In truth, there are instances of homosexual acts which should be condemned, even as there are instances of heterosexual acts which should be condemned. I do not doubt that the writer of Leviticus and that St. Paul had good reason to write as they did.

But when we turn to the scripture, we need to turn to the whole of the scripture. When we do that, the central and overwhelming message is God’s inclusive love for all of humankind.

Scholars of all opinions have agreed that one verse of scripture is truly the “gospel in a nutshell”– the beloved John 3:16: “God so loved the world that he gave his only Son that everyone who believes in him may not perish but have eternal life (NRSV).”

The overwhelming love of God in Christ sweeps some specific prohibitions away, even though they are in the Bible. Do you believe that? Anyone here divorced? Jesus ruled out almost all divorce. Anyone here a woman? Well, Paul didn’t rule you out, but he ruled you out of speaking in church. Anybody here eat pork? Specifically prohibited!

Look, the sovereign message of the Bible is God’s redeeming, all-powerful love that overrides all else, and places specific prohibitions in the context of the time and place and situation in which they were written.

TRADITION: We remember Tevya in Fiddler on the Roof singing, “Tradition.” Regarding homosexuality, it is not so much that tradition has been actively against it, but that tradition has been actively covering it up. The tradition is that it is a taboo subject–shrouded in mystery–unspeakable–unmentionable–a subject to be crammed down into the nether regions of our consciousness and forgotten. As a consequence, our real tradition is ignorance. So to that extent, church tradition doesn’t help much.

In another way, however, we have a long tradition of change. Some 150 years ago, in many of our churches, Methodists believed slavery was scriptural and ordained by God. Until 1920, The Methodist Church in its Discipline prohibited (or tried to prohibit) “dancing, theater-going, and card-playing.” But we have a long, long tradition of finally sorting out what is truly important over what is either incorrect or only marginally important. In the long run, we have always been able to discern when God is doing a new thing in our midst. This capacity to change is among the noblest of our traditions.

EXPERIENCE: Of all the 4 tests of Christian truth, experience is in some ways the deepest and most far-reaching. It is the thing that can move us when nothing else can.

John Wesley was an academic, legalistic, guilt-ridden and slightly repulsive Anglican priest before he experienced the love of God in his heart of hearts–before his heart, as he wrote, was “strangely warmed.” It turned his life around. It made the difference between his ending up a forgotten cleric of the Church of England and what he is–a man remembered, respected and followed by millions, one of the great spiritual fathers of the human race.

What is the role of experience in the issue we speak of today? It is the personal encounter with the anguish, the pain, the hurt, the suffering, the despair which harsh and judgmental attitudes can have on persons of homosexual orientation.

How does this encounter come about? One way is when parents realize that their child is a person of homosexual orientation. They share intensely and intimately in the struggle, perhaps the denial, often the anguish, but ultimately the acceptance of the child whom they bore and whom they love. It is little wonder that such parents gather together with others in groups such as PFLAG (Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) to bring about understanding and change. For they have experienced first-hand some of the deep, deep hurt that accompanies this issue in our church and in our society.

In my own case, based on my limited understanding, I went along with the prevailing view, although never including any hatred. I said to myself, “After all, God created men and women different, complementary to one another physically and perhaps emotionally. From my viewpoint as a heterosexual person, heterosexuality must be what God expects of all His creation.” It was just common sense to me.

I was wrong. It was experience that showed me I was wrong.

Actually, several experiences were at work. A year ago, when Bishop Joseph Sprague of Illinois asked me to come and preside over a church trial, experience made its compelling points with me. The Reverend Gregory Dell was pastor of the Broadway United Methodist Church in Chicago, a congregation made up of about 40% gay and lesbian persons, situated in a community of similar makeup. Under the law of our denomination, Reverend Dell was charged with “disobedience to the order and discipline of The United Methodist Church,” for conducting a service of holy union for two members of his congregation, two gay men.

These two men were active in their church as ushers, finance committee members, and regular participants. They had been living as partners for several years, but had been having trouble in their relationship. They came seeking spiritual counsel from their pastor, and wanted to have some kind of service of prayer or blessing of their commitment. They felt it would strengthen them and make them better partners. Reverend Dell agreed to conduct a small, informal service, which took place in September of 1998.

The facts of the case were never contested. For conducting this service, the trial court found him guilty and suspended him from the exercise of ministry. Ecclesiastically speaking, the decision was correct. As I understand the Spirit of God, it was wrong.
For two long days I watched this trial of a dedicated, energetic, compassionate, caring and able minister, with 30 years of loyal service to our church. This experience, along with other experiences I am sure, caused me to change my mind. I began to see the new thing God is doing.

REASON: Reason cuts both ways. For a long time, reason told me that God’s creation of male and female ruled out anything but heterosexuality. But reason, enriched by experience, actually told me otherwise.

I have often taken issue with arguments which equated prejudice against homosexuality with prejudice against race. I took issue because race was clearly a condition one was born with, while homosexuality involved behavior which is subject to human will. Having said that, is it reasonable to believe that God would create some with an orientation toward the same gender, put within them the same strong drive of sexuality which is present in heterosexual persons, and then decree that such a drive is to be absolutely repressed and denied? This not only defies reason, but is cruel, unfeeling and arbitrary–qualities foreign to God as we know Him in Jesus Christ. Reason supports a belief that God is in the process of doing a new thing.

At the trial of Gregory Dell, the two men who were the participants in the service of union appeared as witnesses. On the stand, in response to questions, one man told about his father, a pastor in the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church, one of the most conservative denominations in America. He asked his father to conduct the holy union service. The father regretfully declined, on the basis of his denomination’s position, yet he attended the service. Afterwards, at the reception, the father led in a public prayer of blessing for his son and his partner.

Whatever our beliefs about homosexuality, can we as Christians do any less than to affirm the committed relationships of our sisters and brothers in Christ?

In a few weeks 992 delegates will gather in Cleveland for the General Conference, marking 216 years of our church’s life. These are good people, dedicated United Methodist Christians earnestly seeking God’s will for our church. They have been elected by their fellow clergy and laity from all over the world and entrusted with a heavy responsibility. They will have differing perspectives on this and many issues facing them.

It is impossible to predict what actions they may take, because the Spirit moves at its own pace– “the wind bloweth where it listeth (John 3:8).” But I believe that if the delegates are listening carefully, above the competing pressures of this group and that, they will hear the still, small voice whisper, “I am doing a new thing,” and they will respond faithfully.

How about this ministers comments. I tried posting the whole thing but it’s being blocked.

Maybe the lesson for today reminds us that God is ever ready to do a new thing. It further reminds us that the God we worship is not a static God, capable only of speaking to us from two, three or four thousand years ago. Rather, God is living, alive in this moment, revealing new truth to us here, now.

God is revealing new truth in many areas of life. One which is increasingly clear is that He is speaking to us in the issue of homosexuality.

The new thing that God is doing in our midst right now is to show us that homosexuality is not simply an act or acts of willful disobedience to God’s law and commandments, but it is a state of being. It is an identity that God has given to some of His children. It is who they are.

The overwhelming love of God in Christ sweeps some specific prohibitions away, even though they are in the Bible. Do you believe that? Anyone divorced? Jesus ruled out almost all divorce. Anyone here a woman? Well, Paul didn’t rule you out, but he ruled you out of speaking in church. Anybody here eat pork? Specifically prohibited!

Look, the sovereign message of the Bible is God’s redeeming, all-powerful love that overrides all else, and places specific prohibitions in the context of the time and place and situation in which they were written.

I am about to do a new thing. –Isaiah 43:1

Hebrews 12:14 (ESV)

[14] Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

I must apologize for the repeated posts. It took days before they all went through so I thought they where blocked. I hope a moderator will remove the duplications. Thank you.

Interesting argument.

Interesting argument.

According to 1 Cor 6:9-10, living in sin is wrong and will keep one out of heaven.

This position is based on the mangled translation of an obscure Greek word arsenokoites to mean homosexual. It is claimed time and again by those seeking to justify personal prejudice that the word obviously means homosexual, but there is no evidence to support this assumption.

We can be fairly certain that this is not the meaning that Paul wanted to convey. If he had, he would have used the Greek word “paiderasste.” That was the standard and well known term at the time for males who had sex with males. We can conclude that he probably meant something different from persons who were homosexual.

For most of the history of Christianity arsenokoites was translated to mean masturbation, the most recent bible to make this translation was 1968. At other times the word was translated to mean people lacking a high moral standard, or men who sexually abuse children. It is only in the last fifty years or so that a shift in the translation of this word to mean homosexual has been seen. In fact no bible included the word homosexual prior to 1984. Each translation seem to take whatever activity that their society particularly disapproves at that moment and makes use of this vere to condemn it.

The defense for claiming that arsenokoites means homosexual is made by claiming that the meaning of this compound word is derived from the meaning of its two root words: arseno (man or men) and koitai (bed). This approach is linguistically invalid. Deconstructing compounds is difficult no matter what language one uses and in this case is compounded by the fact that the word is from a dead language. One can’t just define a compound word by taking it apart, getting the meanings of its component parts, and then assuming, with no supporting evidence, that the meaning of the longer word is a simple combination of its component parts. To “understand” does not mean to “stand under.” In fact, nothing about the meaning of understand has anything to do with standing or being under anything and never has had anything to do with standing under something. This phenomenon of language is sometimes even more obvious with terms that designate social roles, since the nature of the roles themselves often changes over time and becomes separated from any original reference. None of us, for example, takes the word “kidnap” to mean to put a child to bed for a siesta. Therefore all definitions of arsenokoites that derive its meaning from its components are indefensible. Using this method it would be equally valid to claim that when using the word arsenokoites Paul was condemning the lazy or even the whole bed making industry.

consider compound words that have koites as their suffix:
doulokoites dealer in slaves
duterokoite to have a bed partner (gender not specified)
parakoitEs bedfellow, (specifically ones spouse)
polukoitos promiscuity
klepsikoites employing a prostitute
hemerokoites sleeping by day
khamakoites sleeping on the ground
enookoites with ears large enough to sleep in (not kidding)
borborokoitEs a kind of frog

Some claim that Paul coined this word by combining two words from the Septuagint because his audience would have no reference or understanding of homosexuality. The claim is a joke among linguists and etylogists. The ancient Greeks clearly understood the concept and didn’t have to make up words to discuss it because they already had the word paiderasste.

Some try to continue to justify the translation as justification for their own personal prejudice by trying to claim (without support) that Paul was playing a mix and match word game by using words from the Septuagint.

The phrase in the Septuagint is: Kai meta arsenos ou koimethese koiten gunaikos.”

If the Septuagint had wanted to say “one shall not lie with a man/male as with a woman/female” it would have been written either “Kai meta andros ou koimethese hos meta thelus”

Broken down the Septuagint translation says:
The greek “Kai” is “and”, and “meta” is roughly “with”.

“arsenos” means “male” (as opposed to “man” ["andros"]). An interesting choice of wording to say the least In Hebrew “human”/”teracotta”(colour) is “adama”. And man is “ish”/”esh”; “ishah” is “woman”. But the word translated as “man” in leviticus18:22 is actually “zakar”, which is a very different word entirely. “zakar” elsewhere is only used to refer to men who are somehow sanctified. More on that in a moment.

“koimethese” roughly means “the same as”.

koiten translates as “marriage bed”

“koite gynaikos” “specifically means a woman’s marriage bed. Idiomatically it refers to “wife”, as in “my woman” therefore “koite gynaikos” translates to ‘the wife’s bed’.

This is of course the Koit translation of the original Hebrew. The original Hebrew phrase is: “We-et-zakar lo’ shakab mishkevey ‘ishshah”
The first two words “we-et” simply mean “and with”.

The word “zakar” means a ritually sanctified man.
Shakab – a sexual encounter typified by deceit or force. The word is often misapplied to mean sexual intercourse but the word for sex / carnal knowledge is yakhasey
ishshah – the word for womanorwife.

The Septuagint is condemning adultery not homosexuality and then only when that takes place in the bed of his wife (wives). Or more broadly it denounces a man taking a woman to bed as if she was one of his wives. The original Hebrew condemnation is not a terribly strong one in that it applies only to men who have been sanctified(made ritually pure) and if such a man does commit a rape he only looses that ritual sanctification and must be cleansed to become ritually pure again

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I just want to say this I am sinner saved by grace when you truely want to walk in God’s holiness He will reveal to you if you are living in sin and you will not be comfertable in it. I can say this before I gave my life to the Lord I had a relationship with another female and I new then it was not right. God lead me to this scripture when I wanted to know what He thought about homosexuality and this is what it said “That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even women turned against the natural way to have sex and indulged to have sex with eachother and the men instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for eacother.Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result suffered within theirselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandond them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.{Romans 1:26-28 NLV}. I was deeply grieved to here that Jennifer chose to give in, there are so many people she affected with here christain music and also I pray for her because she dose not know how many people even young people this will be a stumbling block for.
God is a God of forgiveness and Mercy and I believe that you Pastor Bob showed a good example of loving the person and hating the sin which is what God said that He loved us while we were still dead in our sin that He sent Jesus to die on the cross. You were not judging her you were telling the truth. “You shall know them by the fruit they bear” that is not being judgmental.

Pastor Bob,

We just watched the Larry King Live videos with Jennifer Knapp. Thanks for standing up for the truth under persecution. We were encouraged by your bold faith. As Christians, we realize that we have a sinful nature but die daily to that sinfulness so we can be blameless when we stand before the throne. God bless your ministry.

Love,
Tim & Emily

We’re not sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners. I sinned yesterday, and will again tomorrow. It’s not a condition from which we can escape. Between Jesus, James, & Paul, the NT advises us not to judge. I’ll have to keep my rocks in my pocket.