Comments for Bob Botsford http://www.bobbotsford.com Just another WordPress weblog Tue, 07 Sep 2010 22:19:01 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 Comment on Straight to the Truth … by Giovanna http://www.bobbotsford.com/2010/04/straight-to-the-truth-in-love%e2%80%a6/comment-page-11/#comment-4408 Giovanna Tue, 07 Sep 2010 22:19:01 +0000 http://www.bobbotsford.com/?p=1491#comment-4408 Stephilosophy, you make some great points but unfortunately, when someone is so caught up in themselves they lose their ability to recognize the truth about who they truly are because their mind is closed. Your opinion will probably be dismissed unless there is a bunch of divinity letters after it. I often wonder if the Satan here on earth is actually the ego and the power it has over people. An ego, filled with righteous, selfishness, greed for objects and things of this world. Love is what conquers ego, love for our fellow human beings, love for earth and the creatures that inhabit it. Love for those that are different than the cookie cutter image men thousands of years ago thought we should be especially when reproduction for our species was so important. Now look at earth today with too many people using up all the resources it has, driving animals God created into extinction. Its nuts. Stephilosophy, you make some great points but unfortunately, when someone is so caught up in themselves they lose their ability to recognize the truth about who they truly are because their mind is closed. Your opinion will probably be dismissed unless there is a bunch of divinity letters after it. I often wonder if the Satan here on earth is actually the ego and the power it has over people. An ego, filled with righteous, selfishness, greed for objects and things of this world. Love is what conquers ego, love for our fellow human beings, love for earth and the creatures that inhabit it. Love for those that are different than the cookie cutter image men thousands of years ago thought we should be especially when reproduction for our species was so important. Now look at earth today with too many people using up all the resources it has, driving animals God created into extinction. Its nuts.

]]> Comment on Pastor Bob in the Windy City… by Ashley Mahaffey http://www.bobbotsford.com/2010/08/pastor-bob-in-the-windy-city/comment-page-1/#comment-4389 Ashley Mahaffey Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:44:11 +0000 http://www.bobbotsford.com/?p=1779#comment-4389 @ A presbyterian, Right on! Jesus did say that. But, that doesn't negate the rest of the passage, that in order to get into those "mansions" in heaven you need to do exactly as Jesus says in 14:6 - “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” The Bible doesn't say Jesus is one of 4 prophets. Jesus is the one and only son of God. So, I don't see that God could be giving anybody a hall pass for believing something contrary to His Word. And, I'm saying that in love. It's simply fact. Regarding your original question about does Horizon support "the growing open enmity (strong word)," I say this, Pastor Bob spoke over the weekend and said "Jesus is the head of our church, not me (Pastor Bob) or the board or any one." Amen! And, I am certain that our leaders have a deep conviction to love all people and lead them to repent and receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. And, that includes your dear husband. God loves his children. He created us each to make that personal decision about that personal relationship with his Son. I think your concern is a bit misguided regarding "superior to others." Your husband's life is not defined by religion or what others think. It is defined by his choice. And, if you are the only Jesus that your husband sees on a day to day basis then continue to pray for him, and ask your Christian friends to pray for him to choose life through Christ. Note: If I'm kind then it's the Spirit in me, because I can be a bear. - Grateful for His mercy on me. BTW, I think we are hijacking Pastor Bob's thread here. So, feel free to contact me directly and I would be happy to introduce you to a Pastor or invite you to our Wmn's Bible study. email: Ashley (at) AshleyMahaffey (dot) com @ A presbyterian,

Right on! Jesus did say that. But, that doesn’t negate the rest of the passage, that in order to get into those “mansions” in heaven you need to do exactly as Jesus says in 14:6 – “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

The Bible doesn’t say Jesus is one of 4 prophets. Jesus is the one and only son of God. So, I don’t see that God could be giving anybody a hall pass for believing something contrary to His Word. And, I’m saying that in love. It’s simply fact.

Regarding your original question about does Horizon support “the growing open enmity (strong word),” I say this, Pastor Bob spoke over the weekend and said “Jesus is the head of our church, not me (Pastor Bob) or the board or any one.” Amen!

And, I am certain that our leaders have a deep conviction to love all people and lead them to repent and receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. And, that includes your dear husband. God loves his children. He created us each to make that personal decision about that personal relationship with his Son.

I think your concern is a bit misguided regarding “superior to others.” Your husband’s life is not defined by religion or what others think. It is defined by his choice. And, if you are the only Jesus that your husband sees on a day to day basis then continue to pray for him, and ask your Christian friends to pray for him to choose life through Christ.

Note: If I’m kind then it’s the Spirit in me, because I can be a bear. – Grateful for His mercy on me.

BTW, I think we are hijacking Pastor Bob’s thread here. So, feel free to contact me directly and I would be happy to introduce you to a Pastor or invite you to our Wmn’s Bible study.
email: Ashley (at) AshleyMahaffey (dot) com

]]> Comment on Straight to the Truth … by GodKnowsMyName http://www.bobbotsford.com/2010/04/straight-to-the-truth-in-love%e2%80%a6/comment-page-11/#comment-4309 GodKnowsMyName Fri, 03 Sep 2010 02:18:04 +0000 http://www.bobbotsford.com/?p=1491#comment-4309 I posted two or three times quite early on in this thread, specifically addressing Pastor Bob. I'm very disappointed he hasn't responded to my original post. I guess at this point I shouldn't hold my breath for this one. Thank you all for sharing with us. :) GodKnowsMyName I posted two or three times quite early on in this thread, specifically addressing Pastor Bob. I’m very disappointed he hasn’t responded to my original post. I guess at this point I shouldn’t hold my breath for this one.

Thank you all for sharing with us.

:) GodKnowsMyName

]]> Comment on Pastor Bob in the Windy City… by A presbyterian http://www.bobbotsford.com/2010/08/pastor-bob-in-the-windy-city/comment-page-1/#comment-4291 A presbyterian Thu, 02 Sep 2010 06:35:31 +0000 http://www.bobbotsford.com/?p=1779#comment-4291 Thank you for taking the time to reply to my posting. I see you quoted John 14:6. Remember that He also said that in my Father's house, there are many mansions. Did you know that Muslims following the teaching of Jesus and consider Him one of the four great prophets? I bet this counts for quite a bit with Him. I still have my original question; whether your church supports the growing and open enmity towards Muslims or not. I am disheartened that some Americans and some Christians can so easily feel superior to others. I am astounded that there are churches that encourage this. I hope your church isn't one of them, but I suspect it is from the two postings I mentioned in my original post. I would welcome and be relieved if you could assure me that your church does not look down on Muslims and that your church believes that God loves Muslims and will grant them the same rewards in the after-life. I appreciate your honest and thoughtful posting. You sound like a kind person. Thank you for taking the time to reply to my posting. I see you quoted John 14:6. Remember that He also said that in my Father’s house, there are many mansions. Did you know that Muslims following the teaching of Jesus and consider Him one of the four great prophets? I bet this counts for quite a bit with Him.

I still have my original question; whether your church supports the growing and open enmity towards Muslims or not. I am disheartened that some Americans and some Christians can so easily feel superior to others. I am astounded that there are churches that encourage this. I hope your church isn’t one of them, but I suspect it is from the two postings I mentioned in my original post. I would welcome and be relieved if you could assure me that your church does not look down on Muslims and that your church believes that God loves Muslims and will grant them the same rewards in the after-life. I appreciate your honest and thoughtful posting. You sound like a kind person.

]]> Comment on Straight to the Truth … by Stephilosophy http://www.bobbotsford.com/2010/04/straight-to-the-truth-in-love%e2%80%a6/comment-page-11/#comment-4222 Stephilosophy Sun, 29 Aug 2010 06:00:05 +0000 http://www.bobbotsford.com/?p=1491#comment-4222 Bob, I came to this sight after the LKL show. I read your blog here. If someone is "trapped" in a burning building, yes, of course it would be wrong to not help them get out, unless of course you were incapable of helping them. To follow your metaphor through, obviously you are incapable of pulling Jennifer out of this burning building or you would have by now. Now let’s look at Jennifer. She probably does not see or feel herself to be "trapped" in some burning building she needs to be saved from. She is where she is, willingly, honestly, truthfully. What is there to save her from then? From an imaginary burning building you, the all knowing all seeing one, thinks she should be saved from? If God makes a law, let God be the prosecutor, the jury and the judge. God's law is not for our simple minds to go around policing others with. Your metaphor of being "trapped" in a burning building does not work in your favor. I makes you out to look like you want to be God's policeman or fireman; a savior. What you think is dangerous, "fire", may not be dangerous to her at all! Remember Daniel in the lions den? This is going to be hard for you to see, but she is making a very potent point here. And the point is pointing at you; your lack of faith and humility. Your human blindness/weakness/lack of faith in God's ability to love us all, to protect us all, just as we are wherever we are, speaks volumes about you. You think you have to fix Jennifer; save her! You think you are God's eyes, ears and voice; God's enforcer! You are so full of yourself; your ego/darkness/sin/satan! The sin of your ego is what you need to be focusing on here. Remove the log out of your own eye first so you can see the truth of the whole situation. Let love, God's love, work in her life and yours. He can do this work just fine without you creating more division in our already fractured world. You are just making things worse for yourself; for all of us! She is getting a very powerful and potent lesson from being in a homosexual relationship. How do you know God does not have a plan for her exactly the way she is and that this lesson is not part of it? All relationships grow us and help us awaken to Truth. Do not rob her of this lesson just because you can't see its usefulness or understand it. Trust in God; TOTALLY! You are mistaken if you think this is not about your omniscient egotistical infatuation with power. Her best life is to be lived authentically in her truth as she evolves; unlike you, who may have had to deny his authentic process as a human being in a desperate attempt to be PERFECT. Who are you trying to be perfect for? Jesus died in vain if you cannot surrender your desire to be perfect. I would say you are too short sighted and egotistical to see the beauty of this human "process" that God gave us for a reason. You are so wrapped up in policing other people’s lives and correcting them to your standards (under the guise of “biblical standards”) that you fail to look at your own life; exploring the beauty of the self discovery process. You are currently on the prodigal son's path yourself. You may not even be able to see it because your ego has put you to sleep in your self righteousness. This human life is growing you, teaching you, taking you down the prodigal son's path and you don’t even know it. That is the irony of this path. Be grateful. You must walk this path in order to know true compassion for others who are walking this path. There is enough time and enough of God’s love to allow you this valuable opportunity. Don’t deny yourself this lesson. Loving Jennifer as you love yourself can only happen when you truly love yourself. Your judgments of Jennifer show me that you do not truly love yourself; not fully yet. It’s because you have too much judgment in you; non forgiveness for something you despise in yourself. You have not ever hit rock bottom to the point of having to forgive and love your human self as a child of God. The real issue here is that you are clearly unconscious of being on the prodigal son's journey and have not yet returned home. That's okay, we are supposed to be asleep on this journey in order to have the powerful awakening that changes our heart and mind towards Love; true Love, God's love. When you wake up, you will come home, you will leave the sin of self righteousness behind and you will love Jennifer and others not with human love but with God's love; a love you must surrender your ego to in order to truly know it with all your heart, mind and soul. When that happens, your life as you know it today will change forever. Respectfully, stephilosophy2@yahoo.com Bob, I came to this sight after the LKL show. I read your blog here. If someone is “trapped” in a burning building, yes, of course it would be wrong to not help them get out, unless of course you were incapable of helping them. To follow your metaphor through, obviously you are incapable of pulling Jennifer out of this burning building or you would have by now. Now let’s look at Jennifer. She probably does not see or feel herself to be “trapped” in some burning building she needs to be saved from. She is where she is, willingly, honestly, truthfully. What is there to save her from then? From an imaginary burning building you, the all knowing all seeing one, thinks she should be saved from? If God makes a law, let God be the prosecutor, the jury and the judge. God’s law is not for our simple minds to go around policing others with. Your metaphor of being “trapped” in a burning building does not work in your favor. I makes you out to look like you want to be God’s policeman or fireman; a savior. What you think is dangerous, “fire”, may not be dangerous to her at all! Remember Daniel in the lions den? This is going to be hard for you to see, but she is making a very potent point here. And the point is pointing at you; your lack of faith and humility. Your human blindness/weakness/lack of faith in God’s ability to love us all, to protect us all, just as we are wherever we are, speaks volumes about you. You think you have to fix Jennifer; save her! You think you are God’s eyes, ears and voice; God’s enforcer! You are so full of yourself; your ego/darkness/sin/satan! The sin of your ego is what you need to be focusing on here. Remove the log out of your own eye first so you can see the truth of the whole situation. Let love, God’s love, work in her life and yours. He can do this work just fine without you creating more division in our already fractured world. You are just making things worse for yourself; for all of us! She is getting a very powerful and potent lesson from being in a homosexual relationship. How do you know God does not have a plan for her exactly the way she is and that this lesson is not part of it? All relationships grow us and help us awaken to Truth. Do not rob her of this lesson just because you can’t see its usefulness or understand it. Trust in God; TOTALLY!

You are mistaken if you think this is not about your omniscient egotistical infatuation with power. Her best life is to be lived authentically in her truth as she evolves; unlike you, who may have had to deny his authentic process as a human being in a desperate attempt to be PERFECT. Who are you trying to be perfect for? Jesus died in vain if you cannot surrender your desire to be perfect. I would say you are too short sighted and egotistical to see the beauty of this human “process” that God gave us for a reason. You are so wrapped up in policing other people’s lives and correcting them to your standards (under the guise of “biblical standards”) that you fail to look at your own life; exploring the beauty of the self discovery process. You are currently on the prodigal son’s path yourself. You may not even be able to see it because your ego has put you to sleep in your self righteousness. This human life is growing you, teaching you, taking you down the prodigal son’s path and you don’t even know it. That is the irony of this path. Be grateful. You must walk this path in order to know true compassion for others who are walking this path. There is enough time and enough of God’s love to allow you this valuable opportunity. Don’t deny yourself this lesson. Loving Jennifer as you love yourself can only happen when you truly love yourself. Your judgments of Jennifer show me that you do not truly love yourself; not fully yet. It’s because you have too much judgment in you; non forgiveness for something you despise in yourself. You have not ever hit rock bottom to the point of having to forgive and love your human self as a child of God. The real issue here is that you are clearly unconscious of being on the prodigal son’s journey and have not yet returned home. That’s okay, we are supposed to be asleep on this journey in order to have the powerful awakening that changes our heart and mind towards Love; true Love, God’s love. When you wake up, you will come home, you will leave the sin of self righteousness behind and you will love Jennifer and others not with human love but with God’s love; a love you must surrender your ego to in order to truly know it with all your heart, mind and soul. When that happens, your life as you know it today will change forever.

Respectfully,
stephilosophy2@yahoo.com

]]> Comment on Pastor Bob in the Windy City… by Ashley Mahaffey http://www.bobbotsford.com/2010/08/pastor-bob-in-the-windy-city/comment-page-1/#comment-4218 Ashley Mahaffey Sun, 29 Aug 2010 00:28:57 +0000 http://www.bobbotsford.com/?p=1779#comment-4218 @ A Presbyterian - I grew up Presbyterian, too. I guess that's what initially drew me to read your post. I'm glad that you wrote it. Because that is the only way to start the discussion. The only part that I feel feebly qualified to speak on here is your last sentence: "I am troubled that some Christians denominations are not loving and accepting of all God’s children, no matter what religion God has guided them toward." You're right, the Word of God says to love one another. And, there happen to be wolves in sheep's clothing in this world, sadly. Additionally, John 14:6 says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." It is because of His enormous love for ALL of us, including Muslims, that God wants us to make the decision to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. No where in the Bible does God guide anyone away from a personal relationship with Jesus Christ so that they can pursue any religion. Salvation is not a religion. It's a decision. Thanks for participating in the discussion. In Love, Ashley Sinner. Christian. Attendee of Horizon. @ A Presbyterian – I grew up Presbyterian, too. I guess that’s what initially drew me to read your post.

I’m glad that you wrote it. Because that is the only way to start the discussion. The only part that I feel feebly qualified to speak on here is your last sentence:

“I am troubled that some Christians denominations are not loving and accepting of all God’s children, no matter what religion God has guided them toward.”

You’re right, the Word of God says to love one another. And, there happen to be wolves in sheep’s clothing in this world, sadly.

Additionally, John 14:6 says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” It is because of His enormous love for ALL of us, including Muslims, that God wants us to make the decision to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

No where in the Bible does God guide anyone away from a personal relationship with Jesus Christ so that they can pursue any religion. Salvation is not a religion. It’s a decision.

Thanks for participating in the discussion.

In Love,

Ashley
Sinner. Christian. Attendee of Horizon.

]]> Comment on Straight to the Truth … by Heather of the EO http://www.bobbotsford.com/2010/04/straight-to-the-truth-in-love%e2%80%a6/comment-page-11/#comment-4190 Heather of the EO Thu, 26 Aug 2010 16:00:18 +0000 http://www.bobbotsford.com/?p=1491#comment-4190 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC0j6FTg1xU Derek Webb makes a very good point. We get so lost, don't we? What matters most to us? The lifestyles of others? The sick and the poor, the hurting, the alone? When do we have time for serving the world if we're stuck in our bubbles, perfecting our own faith and pointing out sin, even by name, Jennifer Knapp, Come out. Starving, hurricanes, earthquakes, orphans, widows, naked, addicted, insane.... I think we should probably focus on ourselves. Just imagine if we all did that, and then always, simply did the next thing with great love. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC0j6FTg1xU

Derek Webb makes a very good point.

We get so lost, don’t we? What matters most to us? The lifestyles of others? The sick and the poor, the hurting, the alone? When do we have time for serving the world if we’re stuck in our bubbles, perfecting our own faith and pointing out sin, even by name, Jennifer Knapp, Come out.

Starving, hurricanes, earthquakes, orphans, widows, naked, addicted, insane….
I think we should probably focus on ourselves. Just imagine if we all did that, and then always, simply did the next thing with great love.

]]> Comment on Straight to the Truth … by Heather of the EO http://www.bobbotsford.com/2010/04/straight-to-the-truth-in-love%e2%80%a6/comment-page-11/#comment-4189 Heather of the EO Thu, 26 Aug 2010 15:52:02 +0000 http://www.bobbotsford.com/?p=1491#comment-4189 I just watched LKL. I watched it right after a friend and I emailed back and forth about her homosexuality. She is hurting, knowing that her family will surely disown her when she comes out. She spoke of remembering, as a young woman, even in middle school, her feelings for women. They were always there. My response as a Christian? To tell her I'm sorry she's hurting. To tell her that I love her and that I know a Father, my Abba, who loves her fully, right now, just as she is. Would it be my job EVER to speak anything beyond that? I think not. My entire life I've listened to pastor's point out sin, specific biggies, you know all the ones. It has never once been well with my soul. I don't know why people are not taught and led through love alone. Each of us, when faced with the radical and totally unfair in the best way LOVE of Christ, is changed. We are left mute, dumbfounded, healed and humbled. We should not be able to utter words against each other, if we've truly grasped the love of God. As an alcoholic in recovery, I sit in meetings with people who share my same problem. Our truths are transparent. Our stories ugly and hard. There is no need to wear a mask of perfection. There is no ascension mentality (you do this and I don't do that, therefore I'm on a more right path than you are...I have died to Christ and you have not, etc) I wish everyone could experience it. To be brought SO to the end of yourself that you are left with no words for another soul, only love. There is more redemption, grace and holiness in those meetings than there will ever be in any church, I'm convinced of it. And never in my life have I felt the mercy and unconditional love of God in this way. We are all so broken and so fixed. It's as if we're looking at a very abstract painting of ourselves and each other. Some of us pick out the mistakes, the errant brush-strokes in our fellows, and some of us stand agape at the imperfect beauty of the whole picture. When we stand before God ourselves and we whisper over and over, "Abba, I belong to you," these thoughts of others, the way we take their inventory out of fear, it falls away, as it should. I just watched LKL. I watched it right after a friend and I emailed back and forth about her homosexuality. She is hurting, knowing that her family will surely disown her when she comes out. She spoke of remembering, as a young woman, even in middle school, her feelings for women. They were always there. My response as a Christian? To tell her I’m sorry she’s hurting. To tell her that I love her and that I know a Father, my Abba, who loves her fully, right now, just as she is. Would it be my job EVER to speak anything beyond that? I think not. My entire life I’ve listened to pastor’s point out sin, specific biggies, you know all the ones. It has never once been well with my soul. I don’t know why people are not taught and led through love alone. Each of us, when faced with the radical and totally unfair in the best way LOVE of Christ, is changed. We are left mute, dumbfounded, healed and humbled. We should not be able to utter words against each other, if we’ve truly grasped the love of God.
As an alcoholic in recovery, I sit in meetings with people who share my same problem. Our truths are transparent. Our stories ugly and hard. There is no need to wear a mask of perfection. There is no ascension mentality (you do this and I don’t do that, therefore I’m on a more right path than you are…I have died to Christ and you have not, etc) I wish everyone could experience it. To be brought SO to the end of yourself that you are left with no words for another soul, only love. There is more redemption, grace and holiness in those meetings than there will ever be in any church, I’m convinced of it. And never in my life have I felt the mercy and unconditional love of God in this way. We are all so broken and so fixed. It’s as if we’re looking at a very abstract painting of ourselves and each other. Some of us pick out the mistakes, the errant brush-strokes in our fellows, and some of us stand agape at the imperfect beauty of the whole picture.
When we stand before God ourselves and we whisper over and over, “Abba, I belong to you,” these thoughts of others, the way we take their inventory out of fear, it falls away, as it should.

]]> Comment on Pastor Bob in the Windy City… by A presbyterian http://www.bobbotsford.com/2010/08/pastor-bob-in-the-windy-city/comment-page-1/#comment-4181 A presbyterian Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:04:41 +0000 http://www.bobbotsford.com/?p=1779#comment-4181 I have a couple of friends that go to your church. I am very sad to see some deragatory statements about Muslims on your blog and website. How sad. I am a Christian and my husband a Muslim. He is not "... The devil [is] wanting to claim the next generation for his bidding. There is a Muslim invasion in Africa like no other place in the world." When I look at my friends now, I wonder if they are just pretending to accept him. I wonder what they really think of him. Do they feel superior? Is the purpose of the sublte distain for Muslims I saw on your site to make your church members feel superior and part of the good group of people? I am troubled that some Christians denominations are not loving and accepting of all God's children, no matter what religion God has guided them toward. I have a couple of friends that go to your church. I am very sad to see some deragatory statements about Muslims on your blog and website. How sad. I am a Christian and my husband a Muslim. He is not “… The devil [is] wanting to claim the next generation for his bidding. There is a Muslim invasion in Africa like no other place in the world.”

When I look at my friends now, I wonder if they are just pretending to accept him. I wonder what they really think of him. Do they feel superior? Is the purpose of the sublte distain for Muslims I saw on your site to make your church members feel superior and part of the good group of people? I am troubled that some Christians denominations are not loving and accepting of all God’s children, no matter what religion God has guided them toward.

]]> Comment on Pastor Bob in the Windy City… by Jim & Sandy G. http://www.bobbotsford.com/2010/08/pastor-bob-in-the-windy-city/comment-page-1/#comment-4171 Jim & Sandy G. Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:22:47 +0000 http://www.bobbotsford.com/?p=1779#comment-4171 We miss you at Horizon No. Co., but so thankful to have a pastor that's "out there" sharing the truth & love of Jesus Christ! Praying for you! We miss you at Horizon No. Co., but so thankful to have a pastor that’s “out there” sharing the truth & love of Jesus Christ! Praying for you!

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